Pat Ahern is a Partner at Junto, a marketing agency that specializes in WordPress web development and driving online sales through long-form content creation.
Outside of work, Pat loves rock climbing, travel, and craft beers.
In This Conversation We Discuss:
- [0:58] Pat’s journey towards Junto
- [3:10] Blogging is a powerful way to grow businesses
- [4:07] How to have strategic intent in blogging
- [5:57] Blogging is mostly an SEO play
- [7:06] Content marketing strategies that young entrepreneur can do themselves
- [13:51] SEO Myth #1: SEO’s effects can be seen overnight
- [15:28] Sponsor: Simplr simplr.ai/honest
- [16:19] SEO Myth #2: Google only cares about new content
- [18:24] SEO Myth #3: Technical SEO > Quality Content
- [22:22] Chase’s Technical SEO engine tuning analogy that he found on Twitter
- [23:12] Pat’s Technical SEO Ship analogy
- [23:44] Sponsor: Gorgias gorgias.link/honest
- [24:33] Ways for eCom store owners to come up with content ideas
- [28:39] Chase highly recommends Junto’s Content Marketing Playbook
- [30:18] Pat recommends Brian Dean’s SEO article, Skyscraper Technique 2.0
- [31:27] Pat: “Just get out there and start publishing content.”
- [32:08] Chase: “Just get it going. You fail fast and learn from it.”
- Junto’s step-by-step process to help clients scale their online sales through content marketing: junto.digital/content-marketing-playbook
- Backlinko’s study of 1 Million search results backlinko.com/search-engine-ranking
- Ahref’s study of how long it takes a post to rank ahrefs.com/blog/how-long-does-it-take-to-rank
- Brian Dean’s SEO Strategy, “Skyscraper Technique 2.0” backlinko.com/skyscraper-technique-2-0
- Pat’s email: firstname.lastname@example.org
- Junto’s article: The 13 Unique Benefits of Content Marketing
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Welcome back to another episode of Honest eCommerce. I'm your host, Chase Clymer and today I am joined by Pat Ahern. Pat is coming to me from outside of Denver, Colorado. Correct?
Yeah, just actually right in the heart of Denver, Colorado. But thanks for having me, Chase.
Oh, absolutely. So Pat is a Partner over at Junto Digital. We met a few weeks back at a conference for agency owners, and he had a lot of awesome information to share content.
So I'm really excited about this episode.
If you've listened to me in the past on this, I always talk about all of the brands that are finding success in eCommerce that we work with over at Electric Eye. They have content creation, baked into the strategy of their brand and they're seeing huge successes about it. So hopefully, Pat can share some cool stuff with us.
So with that being said, Pat, tell us a bit about Junto and what you were doing before and what was your journey up to now being a partner?
Yeah, absolutely. So, I joke that I'm basically a failed entrepreneur in every venture that I've worked on and Junto was so far gone really well. So been a nice little change of pace here.
But long and short of it. My business partner and I met at a previous agency. I would say the agency was a little bit more established, a little bit more set in their ways. They had been around for about 10 years at that time.
So for the two of us, we were constantly just looking for ways that we could drive more value to our customers, constantly looking for ways that we could improve the quality of services, and really just continue to grow the team.
At the time being, I think 23 years old, very understandably they were skeptical about a lot of our suggestions. And I would say, (they were) a little bit more adamant about keeping things the way they were.
So at that point, my business partner and I think had worked at a combined five or six different agencies. So we really started looking at it and said, "Hey, we really want to try this out on our own."
The biggest thing we said, in particular, is we're very firm believers that the freelance economy is coming and it's here to stay. So for us, we decided to build Junto on the premise that people don't necessarily need to be sitting elbow-to-elbow, in order to get things done together.
So what we built up over the past I guess, three and a half years, is a global team of 33 people, as of today, based all around the world.
So, a handful of people in our local Denver office, people that are on the East Coast of the United States, our lead developer is an expat who lives in Thailand. We really have team members from all other parts of the world as well.
That's amazing. And you guys are focusing now on content marketing, and really how to use that to effectively drive traffic and authority and in the end, sales.
Absolutely. Absolutely. The biggest thing we say is, blogging can be a really powerful way to grow your business, as long as there's strategic intent behind all those blog articles.
So what we really pride ourselves on is being a data-driven content marketing agency that ultimately helps businesses to succeed by helping them to identify what sort of topics should they be writing about based on search intent and previous consumer search history.
And then from there, working with them to create the most comprehensive resources on the internet about those given subject matters, so that when their potential customers do search for those topics online, they are the business that shows up, they are the business that controls the conversation, and ultimately, they're the business that gets the sale.
Absolutely. So I'm going to... I understood everything you just said, just because marketing is the bread and butter for what I'm doing in this industry. I've been doing it for way too long. But I'm going to challenge you now.
So I'm gonna take it back. I am Joe and I am new to eCommerce. I had a cool product. I launched it online a year or two ago, and we're getting these sales.
I don't understand the difference between blogging --of just throwing some words out there and pressing publish-- versus what you're doing. What's the difference? What am I doing wrong? How can I do this better as this young entrepreneur?
Absolutely, it's a great question and definitely something we hear a lot. So, one of the things we do say, Blogging just blindly can lead you really kind of taking a shotgun type-approach, I would say.
There's certainly a lot of merit to throwing a lot of spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks but ultimately, everybody blog article that you're writing is expensive. If you're writing it yourself, you're probably looking at half a dozen hours of time that is going to go into that article.
If you're working with a content agency or you're working with freelance writers, ultimately, that cost is transitioned in the form of just how much physical revenue do you have to put into each article.
So, our whole approach with content is to focus on the end of the spectrum where we produce less content, but ensure that each of those articles that we do produce is extremely comprehensive and ultimately has what it takes to rank at the top of Google.
So that when your most likely customers are searching for those topics that they have a proven search history for --so in other words, topics that might be getting searched for a few hundred or a few thousand times a month by your target customer-- we ultimately gain the ability to steal all of your competitors traffic, and ultimately --through looking at data-- can ensure that we're getting the most ROI possible out of every article that we write.
Awesome. So what you're saying in short, that blogging is an SEO play?
Yeah. I would say definitely to a very large degree. The big thing that we try and find the right balance of is ensuring that we're focusing on SEO while also ensuring that we're focusing on sales.
So for us, we like to divide up our blogging strategies to focus on topics that have a really high search volume, will be very attainable for us to rank for over time and then from there, as we start getting more and more traffic through those proven topics with proven search history, we can get further down the sales funnel and ultimately start looking at what are the types of questions that people ask during sales conversation that we can create a really comprehensive piece of content about.
But when we ultimately combine these two forces of ensuring that we're showing up in search for those educational topics that consumers are looking for, as well as the sales-type topics that consumers are asking about when they're hopping on the phone with your salesperson or the questions that they're asking when they're sitting there at the shopping cart checkout section, ready to pull the trigger, ultimately ensuring that both those come together to ultimately drive sales to your business.
Awesome. So how do I do this myself? I'm a young entrepreneur and I don't have the budget to hire someone as amazing as Junto. What are some of the tactics that I can employ within my strategy to give it that effort that's better than that spaghetti against the wall?
Absolutely. Absolutely. So I am going to give a little shameless plug here. So, I think it was last summer, maybe two summers ago, our team started getting that question all the time.
And what we did is we put together what we call our Content Marketing Playbook, which outlines exactly what we do for every business that we work with to scale their business and ultimately build a successful content marketing machine for their business. We put that all into one comprehensive guide called our Content Marketing Playbook.
So what I'll do, I'll send you the link after this and if you want, you can add it to the show notes. But otherwise, people can access that playbook by going to junto.digital/content-marketing-playbook and really that'll give the entire step by step walkthrough of what we look at there.
But delving into some of the core elements that we'll take a look at --in terms of building out these successful content strategy-- really the first step that will take is we'll start by identifying, A, who are your direct competitors that you self-identify.
So that might be the people that are basically going head to head with for a very similar type of product. From there we'll expand it a little bit and we'll ask you to describe your business and maybe two to three words.
We'll search online for who are the other businesses that are maybe competing with you on a search perspective that hadn't crossed your mind before, that ultimately are stealing a lot of the potential search traffic that you could be getting for your own brand's self-description.
What we'll do is we'll take a list of all those different websites that come up. We'll start by analyzing where those sites currently seeing value from organic traffic and a content marketing perspective. My personal preference is we use a tool called SEMrush. There's a dozen different tools out there. Ahrefs is another popular one that you can do this exact same research with.
So what we'll do is we'll start by looking at each of these individual competitors, we'll plug them into any of these SEO analysis tools and we'll take a look at what pages on their site are driving the most ROI for their business.
We'll really look at it from two primary perspectives: One, which pages are driving the most organic traffic through having valuable keyword rankings, two, we'll take a look at what sort of pages on their site, maybe aren't seeing a ton of SEO traffic but are ranking in potentially valuable rankings for high search queries that would be valuable to your business.
And what I mean by that, we typically say results 1 to 10 on Google, for any given keyword are going to have a ton of value to your business today if you can rank there. If you're ranking in positions 11 through 20 or 11 through 30, those keywords aren't going to necessarily be driving traffic back to your website today.
However, we can bump up any of those keyword rankings a couple of spots to be in the top 10. We're going to start seeing immediate search traction from that. So in short, look at what keywords do your competitors rank in the top 10 positions on Google for.
That would be valuable for us to rank for as well. And then from there, we'll take a look at what sort of keywords are they ranking in positions 11 through 20 or 11 through 34 that maybe they haven't put quite as much effort into getting those pages to rank as they could have.
And as a result, we might have a great opportunity to try and rank for those teams instead. So we'll start out by identifying all those different opportunities that we can look at. From there we'll look at each of those pages one by one and ultimately identify how likely would we be to outrank our competitors for that given topic.
The two big things that I like to look for, that our team will look for on every single one of these articles is we'll look at the current word count of any of those articles that are driving value for a competitor.
Biggest reason being --and I'm going to butcher the exact number, I apologize, but I'll send this over as another reference points in the show notes-- The team at Backlinko did a study back in --I believe-- it was September 2016, where they found that the average first-page result on Google is about 1900 words (The study indicates 1890 words).
Which is to say that if we see a competitor wrote maybe a blog article that's 750 words or 1000 words that is ranking in the top 10 positions --in driving a lot of value for their business in terms of search traffic-- if we see that topic is currently ranking, that tells us that if we were to write a much more comprehensive resource, that over time, it's very likely that we'd be able to outrank the competitors there by just providing more comprehensive information, and ultimately creating a better resource for readers.
So that's the first thing we'll take a look at, what is the word count of all these individual pieces. In particular, we'll look for articles that maybe have less than 1000 words to them as really low hanging fruit and great opportunities to tackle.
The second thing we'll take a look at is the root domain backlink count to that individual page. Root domain backlink is just a count of how many unique websites are linking back to that individual page.
So our team uses a tool called Ahrefs for that. And the long and short of it, what we'll do is we'll take a look at it and we'll see how many different links does each of these pages have pointing back to them.
If we see a page that has 100 backlinks pointing back to it, that tells us that outranking that page is going to be extremely difficult and take a very long time to do.
However, if we see a search result that maybe only has one backlink or has zero backlinks pointing back to it, that tells us that ultimately if we can create a more comprehensive resource for our readers and maybe get one or two websites to link back to that article over time, through a link outreach campaign, then we have a very high likelihood of outranking that competitor and ultimately stealing all of their search traffic.
So what I would say is starting out there, looking at your competitors’ best performing content and in particular, taking a look at out of all these top-performing posts, which one of them do you see yourself being able to create a more comprehensive resource for?
Prioritizing those topics first and you'll have some immediate keyword ranking wins as soon as you start blogging about some of these topics.
That was actually a very well-worded explanation on just the basics of how SEO works in general. That's amazing. Alright, I want you to bust some myths. Honest eCommerce. Let's tell the truth here.
My competitors got a 700-word article, I slap up a 2000-word article. overnight. I'm gonna be better right?
(laughs) Oh man, I get that question way too often. So that is one of the big things I always preface SEO with. Ultimately ranking and search does take time. And that timeline can vary depending on how competitive topics are.
But a really good expectation to have --as you're going through writing any of these topics really is-- expect that it's going to take about 3 to 6 months to start to see traction on these posts.
For more competitive search themes, those might take 9 or even 12 months to start to see traction. And what I'll even do I can even reference another article here where we basically broke down how the search traffic evolves over time.
And then Ahrefs, --I'll even share this as a show notes link as well-- did a study where they looked at how long does it take the average post to rank. So, Chase, I'll send that over your way as well just so everyone can reference that.
But a really good rule of thumb is to expect that it's going to take at least 3 to 6months to see any sort of traction out of new articles that you write.
The nice thing about it though is if you can see some immediate traction on even one or two of those blog articles that you write, you can get in position one for a keyword that gets 1000 searches a month, that's going to generate about 300 high-quality website visitors to your website every single month.
And as you get more and more content to do the same, ultimately that growth is going to continue exponentially over time.
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And then going back to the topic of SEO being a long-term play, even with just doing one or two articles, that's not going to cut it at all. I know that Google favors websites that are constantly producing articles or content. Essentially keeping their website updated.
That tells Google that "Hey, these people care. They're constantly updating stuff." Newer, fresher content is probably better than this other stuff that's older.
And exactly as you said, ultimately, that update was focused on really rewarding sites that are constantly updating their website.
I think along the lines of SEO myth, --because Google loves fresh content-- I think one of the big points that's really important to clarify for the listeners, though, is one of the biggest SEO misunderstandings is that Google only cares about brand new content and the best way to get on Google's good list is to just pump out a new blog article every week.
That approach certainly does work. But for those that do you want to focus more on quality than quantity, another really great trick that you can use to stay on Google's good list with that fresh content element is to just revisit older posts on your site, maybe once a year or twice a year. Just refresh the content that's there.
See if there are, A, any opportunities to expand on previous points based on new information in your industry, B, ensuring that any data is updated with more relevant and more accurate information for your readers and really anything along those lines. Highlighting any sort of industry trends.
But ultimately making these sorts of updates to existing pieces of content, especially content that's already performing extremely well for you can be another really great way to stay on Google's positive side from a content update perspective.
Thank you so much for that. So I got another loaded question, I guess, is what it's going to be.
So this is something I get asked quite often. I'm sure you do, as well. I've heard X platform is better for SEO or I've heard that you can do X Y and Z plugin to rank better or there's this checklist of 12 things to do and you're automatically going to shoot up in the results, all these things around Technical SEO.
How much weight do you give that versus just content and the quality of the content?
Absolutely. No, another great question there. So I'm probably a little biased here because a lot of the sites that I've worked with over time had been, I would say, smaller to medium-sized businesses. So for me, most of the sites I'm working with are doing, I would say, less than probably $20 million a year in revenue.
So for smaller sites, what we've seen work the best over time is really to place first priority on creating really informative content for your website.
And then from there getting really high-quality websites to link back to that content. The whole Technical SEO piece is extremely important. My view is that Technical SEO really carries the most weight when you taken care of the content quality and the link side of things.
But when we're breaking down SEO, we always break it down into three different categories --I think I've made up at least this third word and we'll see about the other two-- but we break it down into relevancy, authority, and crawlability. Crawlability being the one that I'm pretty sure is a made-up word, but the long and short of it.
Relevancy is just all about making it easy for Google to understand your website and making sure that if you say that... If you basically are selling products in industry X, ensuring that the content on your site is related to industry X, as well.
Authority being, are you getting high-quality websites to link back to you that are telling Google that you're a reputable website? It should be ranking within your industry.
And then crawlability being the third piece that really just brings everything together. So if you have all sorts of little bugs in your website or you have a slow website load speed, it's going to make it a lot harder for Google to analyze your site, it's going to provide a negative user experience, and ultimately, it's going to take away from the great quality content that you are writing.
So I guess the short answer that I would say to go with is, if you are currently the industry leader in your space, focusing on a lot of those Technical SEO things are going to be one of the fastest ways to drive higher quality rankings. If you're currently more authoritative and have been around for longer than your biggest competitors, focus on all those checklists focused on getting your websites to be squeaky clean from a search perspective.
Our team personally uses a tool called SEMrush, again. So we use SEMrush’s Site Audit Tool as a really good starting point for handling a lot of those technical elements. For those who are a little bit newer to SEO, I'd highly recommend it.
You can just sign up for a trial of that, run a site audit and see how your site really stands. And really focus on fixing some of the most pressing errors that they do highlight in there. You start out by doing that, I would say you'll get about 70 to 80% of the way there from a technical SEO standpoint.
But then again, for those that are maybe newer sites or not quite as established as some of their big competitors, Technical SEO probably isn't where you're going to see the most value in terms of time spent. So for those newer sites, I'd really encourage you.
Focus on just really putting all your eggs into the content quality basket. Focus on creating really informative resources that your readers are looking for online and that are driving value for your big competitors.
And then ultimately work on building relationships with other people in your industry. Share your articles with them, and try and encourage them to link back to your content so that you can prove to Google over time that you're a more and more trustworthy website.
Absolutely. So I heard a great analogy the other day that spoke about this Technical SEO thing. So this person on Twitter, and I really wish I... I'm going to try to find it and I'll put it in the show notes.
Essentially, what they said was technical SEO is like tuning an engine. So if you think about tuning an engine, you're making an engine work more efficiently and faster. And then they said that traffic is like the gas.
So if you're tuning an engine that has no traffic, i.e. if you're doing all these technical updates to a website that doesn't have traffic, it's not going to do anything.
But say if you got a full tank of gas i.e. like you're bringing in a bunch of organic traffic already doing this Technical SEO stuff is actually going to fine-tune it, and it is going to give you some performance there. So I just wanted to share that, I guess.
I love that. I love that analogy. The one I always go with is that basically, your website is like a ship. And if you're moving really fast in open waters, and you have a ton of little holes, i.e. a bunch of technical SEO errors, your ship is going to either sink or it's going to move very slowly.
But you know, if you're still sitting there on the harbor, and you're just getting ready to take off for a giant voyage, you know, plugging some of those holes probably isn't going to have the most value really on the get-go. So I couldn't agree any more there.
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So let's shift it a bit to... What are some of the ways for eCommerce businesses... Because at the end of the day, most eCommerce businesses are selling a product or a few types of products on their website and I find that producing content around a product almost gets repetitive or just it's difficult to come up with ideas. So do you have any advice there?
Absolutely. Absolutely. So this is similar advice that we'll share with a lot of other ecommerce businesses that we work with.
One of the things that we've found to be most effective for eCommerce businesses is to really focus on creating two different types of content. Which we call the first group "viral content." And then we call the second group "sales-centric content."
So viral content --and bear with me here-- viral content is directly probably never going to result in the sale for your business. Viral content would be the types of topics that have a really massive search volume behind them, that your customers may be searching for at some point along the buying journey process.
Typically, those are going to be the types of topics that they're searching for before they truly understand the problems and solutions that they're searching for, which will ultimately tie back to your products.
But the big thing with the viral content is if you can write a handful of really great viral content topics that have just a massive search volume behind them, then A, within those viral content topics, you can link back to some of those more valuable pages on your site, whether they be product pages, or whether they be sales-centric blog content pieces that you've put together to drive more sales to your business.
The other thing that happens with it, --which is I would say even more important-- is when you write really successful viral content and you get a handful of those posts to rank in the top two or top three positions on Google for relevant search query, what you'll start finding is many of those posts will start getting backlinks generated on autopilot.
So, as other people are writing content pieces about these types of topics, oftentimes, rather than them putting together a 1500 or 2000 word guide about this topic, they'll hop on Google, they'll search for one of those queries, and ultimately, they'll decide to link to your piece of content that you wrote as a reference point for their readers to save them a ton of time. It just provides more helpful resources.
So as you start getting more and more and more these backlinks on autopilot, A, it's going to ultimately raise the value (of) your entire site authority in Google's eyes and B, as you're linking back to those product pages on your website, some of the link authority that comes from each of those links will then be sent back over to those product pages and help those product pages to rank higher for the direct commercial terms that you're trying to rank those pages for.
So that's really the primary goal with the viral content piece. I would say that's the more search-centric type pieces of content that we'll write. And then the second piece of content I would really say to look at is to revisit your entire sales process.
Look for questions that you've gotten either from your chatbot on your site, questions that customers have emailed over to you, try talking to your sales team and ask them "Hey, what sort of questions are customers asking you on a regular basis?" Or "What sort of questions are you really struggling to give customers a good answer to?" And ultimately focus on creating those pieces of content as well.
The product review pieces are extremely valuable and one of the great starting points for eCommerce businesses, especially if you write the best --insert product name-- products of the current year.
But once you've kind of exhausted some of those topics searching for a little bit more education-centric topics that customers are not necessarily looking for when they're ready to purchase, they are really the things that are going to help you to see those immediate rankings and help you to drive more authority back to those product pages, so that those product pages do start ranking for more valuable queries over time.
That's all amazing advice. I just want to say that I was also... I was listening, by the way, but I was also I downloaded your content marketing playbook here and I just... I'm going to give you a huge shout out on this. It's free. I got it in 2 seconds. I just gave him some information. Obviously, you're going to get probably added to an email list but who cares because this is a 15-page thing that's...
Oh, it's chock full of awesome information here. This is some really high-quality content that you're giving away given out for free about how to do this stuff on your own. So I'm definitely gonna link to this in the show notes. But it's very, very well done.
Well, Chase, I appreciate that. We put it together because we realized over time, we're not going to be the right fit to help out every single business that comes our way. So our thought behind it was, "Hey, there's nothing wrong with being a do-it-yourselfer."
I personally am a do-it-yourselfer in almost everything in life and I've learned the hard way from trying to fix my car anytime an issue goes wrong and breaking two of them over time that maybe I shouldn't be a do-it-yourselfer with everything, but no. I love do-it-yourselfers and I try to take that approach and a lot of ways.
So the whole idea behind the Content Marketing Playbook was if someone wants to learn how to do content marketing, if they want to learn how to do SEO, let's make it as easy as possible to share those resources with them so that they can succeed and just do kick-ass work on their own. And maybe down the road, they become a customer of ours.
If not, maybe they at least see some great success on their own. But either way, the goal is hopefully just to help out some people who really just want to help bring their business to the next level.
Awesome. I can't thank you enough for coming on the show today. Is there anything else that you think that we didn't touch on that would add some value to our audience?
Oh, absolutely. I think the only thing... I'm... So I will say I'm a giant Brian Dean fan. He's one of the big SEO mentors that I follow to just stay in the loop in the industry. I am going to share just one article that I personally share with our entire writing team all about search intent.
So, Chase, I couldn't recommend this highly enough to the entire audience out there. Basically, it just delves into a lot of facets that go into creating a really helpful piece of content for your audience. I'm a very firm believer that even if you follow a lot of these methodologies, and kind of put SEO on the back burner, you're still going to see a ton of value and you're still going to help out a ton of your readers.
So search intent is becoming --and I won't go too deep down this rabbit hole, I promise-- but search intent is becoming a really essential part of SEO more so than it ever has been. Google's been rolling out a ton of algorithmic updates really over the past couple of years, all involving the evolution of search intent.
So without going too deep down that rabbit hole, I'll share one article from Brian Dean, that'll explain the whole concept way better than I ever could in words. But aside from that, I think the only other thing I would say is to just get out there and start publishing content. The first couple of articles you write are probably going to be garbage, the next couple of articles are going to be a little bit better.
But over time, as you start writing more and more, you get more comfortable with your own brand voice and you ultimately start looking back at analytics and seeing what content performs and resonates the best with your readers.
The more you're going to be able to refine your efforts, start creating higher quality content, and ultimately start seeing more and more traction from each of those articles that do right
I audibly laughed and I'm hopefully gonna edit it out of this episode when you said the first three articles are going to be garbage.
But here's the thing, it's absolutely true. It's that... It's just that 0 to 1. It's that binary effect. You weren't doing it now you are doing it. That's such a big movement in business. And just getting it started. Getting it going. I'm always about just get it going. You fail fast and learn from it.
I absolutely couldn't agree anymore there.
Awesome, Pat. Seriously, thank you so much for coming on the show today and we got a... The show notes are gonna be chock full of all the stuff that we talked about today. If people want to get a hold of you, they want to learn more about Junto or they want to book you for another podcast where they can chat about this stuff, how did they get ahold of you?
Yeah, absolutely. So the best way to get in touch with me is to just reach out email@example.com. But yeah, I would love to get in touch with everyone. We always offer free consultation calls.
As I said, we're not always going to be the right partner to help every business grow. But one of the things that I love most about my job is getting to talk to different business owners and different marketers, hear a little about what sort of roadblocks are they running into, helping them brainstorm what's going to be the right option for them, and whether they take the do-it-yourself approach, whether they work with us or whether they work with another agency, honestly, I just love being able to hop on the phone with people and be able to share some of the things that we've learned over the years.
Perfect. You have a great day.
Hey, you too, Chase. Thank you for taking the time.
I cannot thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their journey and knowledge with us today. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add to our businesses. Links and more information will be available in the show notes as well.
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