Nick Raushenbush is the cofounder of Shogun, a page builder that integrates with eCommerce websites, and today he teaches us about the power of building a mobile first website.
Shogun is a powerful page builder that seamlessly integrates into platforms like Shopify and BigCommerce. This allows anyone to easily build out their store with a drag and drop editor, no code required.
In This Conversation We Discuss:
- [6:30] Mobile Vs. Desktop
- [9:20] Simplifying checkout
- [10:00] The importance of testing the site on multiple devices & user testing
- [12:30] Conversion rate optimization on a budget
- [16:00] The danger of too much information
- [17:50] Why a site header can actually be a detriment on mobile (& why you should lean into search over header navigation)
- [19:10] Other eCommerce tips: offer free shipping, make your contact information easy to find, & more
- [21:00] Why Shopify users should consider Shogun
- Learn more at http://www.nickraushenbush.com/
- Get 20% off any Shogun plan for life: https://getshogun.com/d/electric-eye-podcast-20
- BrowserStack mobile & desktop site testing: browserstack.com
- Heatmaps & visitor recordings: fullstory.com | hotjar.com
- User testing: usertesting.com | lookback.io
- Assess website performance: thinkwithgoogle.com | pingdom.com
- Image optimization and compression: compressor.io
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The cool thing for those who are DIY who are on like a super tight budget Shogun gives you that ability, to do it yourself.
Welcome to Honest eCommerce where we are dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners.
I'm your host, Chase Clymer
and I'm your host, Annette grant,
and we believe running an online business does not have to be complicated or a guessing game.
If you're struggling to scale your sales electric eye is here to help to apply to work with us visit electriceye.io/connect to learn more,
Let's get on with the show. On today's episode of Honest Ecommerce, we talked to Nick Raushenbush from Shogun about the power of building a mobile-first website.
Hey, everybody, this is Chase Clymer with my co-host the Annette Grant coming to you with another episode of Honest Ecommerce.
Today's guest is a good friend of mine met him three or four times now and Nick Raushenbush from Shogun. We caught him after quite a bit of travel. I'm surprised we got him on the show. Are you jet-lagged by any chance?
No. So, first of all, glad to be on the show. Second of all, surprisingly, not. Well, I guess. Yeah, yes.
And no, I've been, you know, taking advantage of my jet lag. To be like a super early bird. This week, Shogun now we're, we're like over 25 team members. And it's a fully remote team. So we span nine different time zones.
And that means at that game, if I'm in Pacific Time, getting up earlier is better. So being jet-lagged. Gave me give me an advantage. They're getting up to like four or 5 am for some of our TV.
Yeah. I'm not an early riser. So anytime I'm on the west coast. I feel like way more productive.
Yeah. It's a good feeling. Usually, I am also like a night owl, but I am coming back from Asia I always get, you know, it kind of flips.
And then I yeah, I feel super productive. I feel like a productive member of society.
Whereas when I'm staying up until like 3 am, working and sleeping in until, you know, 11 I'm like, Oh gosh, I'm college days.
In a previous life, I lived above a bar so I couldn't go to bed early. I was always up until three in the morning. And now I live in the burbs and it's great.
Cool. So like you said, Nick is the co-founder of Shogun it's really easy to use page builder for Shopify. You guys have branched out to big commerce as well. So right.
We are on BigCommerce as well and expanding to more platforms in 2019. So excited, excited for that.
And then before Shogun, you worked at a creative agency, didn't you?
Yeah, actually started a creation creative agency called glass marker when I was 25. So uh, so run that company for about three or four years. They're still alive and well. They make our awesome videos now. Yeah.
So how was the transition from going from creative agency to now product based company? How was that?
Yeah, it was to be honest, like it was a steep learning curve, you know, kind of, right as I was leaving glass and marker that, you know, finally, like the fruits of our hard work were coming to fruition.
You know, we're finally starting to head like multi-million dollar run rate. And for whatever reason, I was just like, I want to try and do tack I want to try to do software. Very first San Francisco of me.
The entrepreneur, entrepreneurial spirit, you know, you're like, you know what, I did this? Let me try it. Let's another challenge?
Yeah, I guess like for me at the time, I wanted to take more risks, or I thought I wanted to take more risks. And the funny thing was, is I left my agency and started working on Shogun and Shogun for a completely different purpose.
At that point, it was a page builder for rails and we worked on it We're hard for about six months. The last thing we did, we're about to give up. We integrated with Shopify. And then we actually gave up.
So like a shop of the but the integration still existed. And over the course of the next like a year and a half, we picked up like 1000 users and got it, you know, more or less than 1000 users probably like maybe around 500 or so.
And we started to make around like $20,000 monthly recurring revenue, which was enough for me and my business partner to, you know, start hiring some other folks and paying ourselves very meager salaries.
And, you know, if you fast forward a year, we were finishing up, you know, this tech accelerator called combinator. Hadn't raised any money today, or doing 85,000 a month and monthly recurring revenue.
So that point we're doing already a million dollars in annual recurring revenue. And that was April of that was April of this past year of 2018.
And we've actually grown quite a bit since then. We've multiplied by A couple of times so so yeah, I'm ended up working out. But the time was a year where I basically thought that leaving my agency and trying to do this thing like I was just complete failure.
Have you read Think and Grow Rich?
No, I haven't.
It's a good one. But there's a story in there that is so funny and similar. And I think it's like, it has a bunch of topics. There's a lot about, like, mentally, like, you have to prepare yourself for, like taking on business challenges and whatnot.
So there's an allegory in there about this guy, actually, I think was a real story, actually, this guy owned a gold mine. And like, they got all the equipment. It was a bunch of investment and they went down there and it wasn't there wasn't gold, like they smell this money on this stuff.
And there wasn't gold down there for him to get like, I think they got like a little bit of stuff. But then like the mind pooped out, a guy went bankrupt. He sold the company to some scrapper, and he like went back to New York and he was like, oh, that sucked. scrapper.
Then I had like a surveyor come out. And the guy was actually like, two meters away from were like the real gold was.
And so that mine started producing so much gold.
And yeah, so anytime you're, you know, I guess to bring this to the topic of the conversation here for our store owners, if you think it's rough, just keep doing it. Your riches are right around the corner, I guess. put a positive spin on it.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was the biggest lesson that I when we were working on Shogun, uh, you know, a friend of mine has been very, very successful. Um, you know, he's sold a company for over a billion dollars.
He just kept saying to us, he was like, I think you should just keep working on it. I think you should just keep working on it.
And at the time, I thought that was just like such generic advice. I was just like, what, what kind of vices that a man.
And he was, you know, he was totally right. Like, you know, we just needed to keep working on it and get more users and talk to our, you know, our clients, our users, and figure out what they wanted and build that.
And so I think that it's the same thing for folks who are working in e-commerce if you just persist, and you just keep trying, and you find a product, or a service offering that people love, you know, you're going to be successful. So, yeah,
I 100% agree with you there. So let's kind of pivot the conversation to your realm your expertise over there and Shogun let's start talking about mobile versus desktop.
Yeah, totally. So page design. That's what I wanted to talk about today.
And it's mostly because you know, right now our software has been going through like a massive overhaul right now.
I think it's like over 25% of our clients now should be seeing the new dashboard and with the analytics suite and all that, but um, you know, we're releasing analytics may be testing and we're turning towards the, towards the editor for like q1 or next year.
And the big conversation that we're having is, should we make the editing experience in the show going to mobile-first, right?
Instead of as most people who have experienced website builders, you know, usually hop into the website builder, you see the desktop first, right, and your design for desktop, and then you kind of make sure that your desktop design is, is mobile responsive.
But now and what was it? You know, I think Shopify reported the like, was it 66% of sales on Black Friday or mobile? Yep. I think that was it. Yeah. something crazy. So now we're wondering, or do we have it backward?
Should we actually be setting up the Shogun, you know, page editor or page builder to the mobile-first, and then desktop to be the, you know, to kind of be the not the afterthought, but then, you know, the secondary screen, right.
So, yeah, so that's kind of that, you know, that's what the prompt is for, for this conversation. I guess. What I can talk about is like some of the things that I view as being really important for taking a mobile-first strategy.
Yeah, I mean, with every website nowadays, like, it's, they're all responsive. But mobile is definitely like an afterthought.
And it's like kind of just responds like, surely if you know to put a word on it. It's not it's not it's not. It's designed desktop first and then like, it's made mobile. And that's like the worst way to actually approach it.
Like, you need to approach it from a mobile perspective. Like, if I was on my phone, and I like needed to go through the whole checkout experience on a website. It should be as seamless as it would be on a desktop.
And a lot of people totally a lot of people aren't doing that.
They're not even like checking out on their phone or on the tablet just to see what how that experiences and it's usually, like 10 times more difficult to check out on mobile if people aren't actively getting in there and you know, doing these tests, purchases and seeing what the friction points are
Absolutely, and that was actually one of like, you know, I've got like a handful of tips here. And that was one of them, which is like to make check out a breeze right? You know, you, you really want to make sure that the checkout experience is seamless.
And so you know, you've got technology that you can leverage, like digital wallets, right. Um, to make that experience just a couple of apps, that's really what you're going for.
And as you're you know, as you're building your site, or as you're working with your, you know, your agency to build your site, or make sure that you're just going over that user flow, again, and again, and again, I'm specific to mobile screen sizes and making sure that it's immaculate.
And we use that Shogun when we're testing to see how our software is performing and how our software pages are performing across various browser sizes across various browsers across various screen sizes.
You know, if you want to go heavy duty with it, we use there's something called browser stack, which you can use, that's, that's kind of probably the higher end. If you're, you know, if you're bootstrapping, if you're doing this yourself, I just recommend, you know, obviously, using you know, going through the flow on your phone, your, you know, your partner's phone, your kids phone, your tablet, you know, get as many devices as you possibly can, and test your site and do it from landing page all the way through checkout to make sure that the experience is seamless.
This has been a repeat topic on the podcast is like, test your site, get other people to test your site. The insights you get out of it are insane.
Yeah, totally. And for larger companies, you know, there's like, there are lots of ways to do that, right. Like, you know, again, with Shogun, we use more, we watch people use our software, right?
We do, we do. screen recordings, we use the software. called full story for that. There's another one I think crazy it does a hot jar. File big fan of hot.
Yeah, you know so so what you know watching those sessions even you know if you're again if this is probably for a little bit for the bigger companies but using services like usertesting.com right or lookback.io and getting people to test over and over again and provide you that feedback and you can watch the recorded sessions and then using your, your eCommerce site and also like commenting on it as they're using it to explain things that they find confusing or that aren't working for them or their frustrations is like really, really valuable insight.
And some of that stuff you know, you can do with a smaller budget, you don't need to be a massive enterprise company. And again, if you're DIY and you know, grab your friends, grab your family members, pull your devices together and you know, hold a session that way
Absolutely. So obviously everyone's dream is to become that big company, you know, to hit that gold mind as you would, but a lot of our listeners are, are you know, just starting out and they're they're getting their first sales and they're there on that transition from it being a side hustle to being something that they can sustain themselves with.
What would you say like any tips or methods, you know, for conversion rate optimization for those smaller younger stores, what should they keep in mind when they're they're building out, you know, their websites?
Yeah, the basics, I'll just go over the basics, like So number one, make it quick, whether it's desktop or mobile like you're your site needs to load really, really fast. Um, because if it doesn't, like the bounce rate is absolutely insane.
Um, you know, a two-second delay in web page load time, can increase bounce rates by like, as much as 100 over 100%. You really want your site to be running fast. And to test that you can use tools like think with Google or Kingdom You can use those to actually assess your site speed.
Are those free? Sorry, I just wanna or both are free?
Let me check out real go and check that out real quick. I'm pretty sure Google is free.
Okay. Might, he might have a free version and paid versions.
I think they're both free. And I think I wrote a blog on it quite a while back,
and we'll put it in our show notes for sure. And I didn't know if at the top of your head
The one thing I do want to point out that about load speeds and stuff. A lot of our listeners are probably on Shopify, or thinking about Shopify.
Shopify does help tremendously there with their built-in CDN and their compression and stuff like that.
But a lot of people think that Shopify is taking care of that I don't need to worry about anything which is absolutely false still upload giant images that aren't website like web-ready, and that right there is what's killing their conversion rate, like your huge banner image that's three megabytes is costing you money.
Yeah. So see, I've got a couple of things. there you're absolutely right like shot, you know, is having the pages being served up by cop high CDN.
And by the way, shameless plug for Shogun, you build the pages on Shogun, and then they are actually cert hosted and served up by Shopify, and serve up via Shopify CDN. Sometimes people wonder whether like, we're it's our CDN that, you know, that serving
Will show on optimizing, is that part of your platform? So we
But automatically will like I'm certain the images at a compress compressed version if the only way to actually make the images much larger is to go and go for like higher plans and then manually override that. But yeah, we don't do automatic optimization for page size.
But what we do is we provide helpful like warnings, but when you're hitting compromise, like we don't allow you to exceed Shopify page size limit, right.
So if you're trying to build a massive, massive page, that you wouldn't be able to serve up that I wouldn't serve and you know, in their builder, you can you can't serve that for Shogun.
Like, we'll just we'll tell you pages to beg. Gotcha. Yeah. And tools that I know that are like good for like image compression you can use like compressor.io I think it is a pretty good tool for that. But yeah, just knowing you know, keeping in mind keep make sure that you're not trying to use massive images.
Next on your conversion rate optimization tips. I'm sure you have a slew of them.
Yeah, for sure. Keep it simple. And there's a lot of times where people like to make really cluttered landing pages, blog or whatever, you know, where they're just like, ah, they get so excited about the website.
They're like, Oh, I want to stuff a bunch of information and a bunch of pictures and a bunch of products on this page. And I just want to get, you know, have all the good stuff on this page.
And actually, that can be really really distracting for visitors. So you want to try to stick with, you know, functional, minimal design for the most part, right?
And part of that is making sure that when you get, you know, when you're building a page that you're trying to focus on, like one, maybe two, you know, what we call CTA calls to action, if you've got like four, you know, four or five calls to action on the page, like, Where's the user supposed to focus?
And now that call to action, you're saying it should be like the call to action should be one specific message, correct?
Yes. So if you like either you're trying to drive people into a product purchase flow, or you're trying to collect their email address, or you're trying to get them to browse, you know, browse collections, or you're trying to get them to view a, you know, a set of products, but you're not trying to get them to do all of those things at the same time.
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The way I describe how to build like a really good landing page to people that aren't really familiar with like the logic behind it is like imagine you have a bucket of water and there's one hole in it, the water is going to go out that hole.
But if you have a bucket of water and there are 10 holes, the water is going to go in 10 different directions. Now replace the water with your website traffic and the holes as your call to actions.
Brilliant. Yep, exactly. That is a fantastic analogy. So you really want to direct and you really want to direct that traffic you really want to direct it with that CTA and so you know.
Speaking of which, another thing is when you're building landing pages, consider removing your hair you just leave the footer because it's nice to have the site navigation down there in case people really you know, want to try to navigate.
But sometimes when you're building landing pages, whether for mobile or for desktop, with the intent of doing a sale, the header with the nav and provide just more of a distraction.
People are split thought about this personally, especially for mobile. I think like, a very robust header that has a whole bunch of menu options. That's kind of a mess your experience on mobile, and I think that people should lean heavier on the search and their designs for especially for mobile.
Yes, smart searches, like the smartest thing you can do for your store and 2018 2019 doesn't matter if you don't have like autocorrect and like auto-fill and suggested search built-in with your store. That's leaving money on the table, especially now that you know, probably anyone listening to this their traffic and 75% mobile-first.
Yeah, absolutely. So those would be some of my main tips. I mean, the other stuff that just for like the real, you know, the real basics are, you know, make sure that you offer free shipping. It's, it's 2018, almost 2019 everyone expects free shipping.
If you know, it can be something that I actually debated, you know, if you want to use it as a like hey spend this amount and to reach unlock free shipping do that but generally you should be following a strategy that like bundles the cost of shipping in your you know, into the price that you're showing the user so then they don't you know, kind of bulk-like, Oh gosh, I'm buying an item but then I'm going to have this shipping charge.
Another one is to make sure that your contact information is on the site or there's a way for the visitor to get in touch with you.
You know, especially for a lot of you mentioned a lot of your audience is like, aspiring and like DIY right there.
They're up and coming stores, right? So if you're you know, if you're really you know, big, you know, big store, like some shoguns, biggest clients like Lisa mattresses or movement, you know, moving watches or Gyan or like chubby shorts, people, people just know those brands.
So when they're shopping on those sites, they don't really worry about like, oh, if it doesn't work out with like, you know, my shipment or if I don't like my product, am I going to be able to actually Get in touch with somebody who's going to, you know, help me process a refund or you know how we do an exchange, you want to make sure that you're, you know, as a smaller as a smaller shop or making yourself accessible.
So make it really clear that they can get into contact with you, whether that's through a page, whether that's through a live chat widget, whether that's through, like, you know, forums, you know, I'll leave that to you. But um, but you know, yeah, make sure that they have a way to contact you.
Absolutely. I can't agree with that anymore. Yeah, so let's, let's pivot it. Let's flip the script. Let's talk about Shogun. It's really cool. I've used it on a few sites. So let's plug your company. Yeah, sure. All right. So I'm a Shopify store owner. Why should I use your app?
Yeah, absolutely. So Shogun is a really powerful page builder, and content management system for all of your, you know, pages that you've got on Shopify.
So landing pages, homepage, blog, pages. Pages product pages. And it's very robust builder, it means that without writing code, you can build, you know, build web pages, we've got a library of elements that include, you know, images, video elements, Instagram, social share, accordions, tabs, sliders, you get the idea, you know, a whole bunch of them, as well as all of your product components that are, you know, updated dynamically from Shopify, when you're, you know, when you're building these pages, and I think that's really useful for you know, everyone to have a system that does not require going in and digging until liquid or the HTML or CSS on to, to make edits to their site.
And you know, your options on Shopify otherwise or to use themes which themes are awesome, and some of your theme pages you might say this is perfect.
Um, but you know, other you know, if you use just the theme pages for everything you're saying might end up looking like a lot of other people's websites, so maybe you want to know the to make something, differentiate your website.
And that's where we're shoguns really useful. Yeah, the Shogun replace a custom theme, or can you would you use both? You use both.
Okay, so, Shogun is going to pull in the theme's header and footer, okay. And also, you know, you can use your existing product page layout, and then edit portions of it. And it'll pull in your existing collections page layout, and then you can edit portions of it, or you can just do a blank canvas for, you know, for landing pages and blog pages and product pages, you know, make whatever kind of layout you'd like. And so, yeah, so we've been this really powerful page builder.
You know, it's like, I think, between I don't know the exact numbers because Shopify hadn't had, you know, doesn't make them public, but we definitely know that over 10% and, you know, Perhaps closer to 20% of all of Shopify plus uses Shogun and, and then over 1% of all of Shopify, and Shopify has what like, you know, 600 700,000 users use Shogun, you know, to, to power their websites. And what we're going to be doing in 2019 is rolling out our analytics suite and our A B testing suite.
So you'll be able to test different versions of a page to see which one converts better for you.
And so this type of optimization is what is routine for a lot of these, you know, eCommerce companies that are trying to find, you know, fine-tune their, their, their pages for conversion. So we're very excited to unroll that stuff to start next year.
Yeah, I remember where shared that with me at. You guys were talking about that months, months ago, the AB testing.
Yeah, it's been in the works for a very long time. So right now we're, you know, we're finally finishing it up, as is often the case with software companies. Right.
Yeah and also, when you release something like a B testing, you want to make sure that it works. Right. Yeah. We
Half the testing.
Exactly. So we've actually Shogun has been, you know, ever since our inception, we've been collecting data. Um, you know, when you sign up for Shogun new, you authorize Shogun, to permit certain data.
And we actually built our analytics suite months ago, and it's been running on websites, and we've been, you know, doing QA on it to make sure that our analytics are accurate, right, and that everything's running really smoothly.
And so, so it's actually been running. People just haven't seen the user interface for it because we haven't released it if that makes sense. Does that make sense?
It does make sense. When are you not to lock you into a date? But do you have a time when you think you're going to be launching that stuff? And it might be around when this podcast comes out?
Yeah, totally. My business partner, Finbar, who's our CEO, tech, technical CEO, and formerly an engineer, he's telling me January, so I would say February.
So I would say when this podcast comes out, the A/B testing will probably be live.
It should be live by then.
We're rolling it out across the platform or just to a chosen few in the beginning.
So we'll roll it out to where it's initially going to be at the on the top tier Shogun So, but, but things like analytics will be available on the salt, you know, on the lower tiers.
Absolutely. So I just want to kind of jump back into like, what Shogun is and for any of our listeners to kind of really clarify it and why electriceye used it for some stuff. Shogun is a really powerful drag and drops page builder.
Essentially, we were using it to create custom pages for our clients that allowed them to edit it really quickly and easily. Whereas in other ways we designed landing pages or other custom stuff. I mean, it's 10 times more work.
So a little bit more expensive to get in there and make it customizable through the standard Shopify Theme Settings.
When you can just use Shogun and build it out and showgun and then it's, if you can update your Facebook profile picture, you can update the content on these pages.
Exactly. And, you know, we partner with agencies we partner with, you know, top agencies like the electric eyeon DD Excel, you know, we make websites all the Columbus boys. Yeah, I think it's a people always think, oh, gosh, isn't our website builder and agencies. Isn't that kind of counter and inside it's actually couldn't be further from the truth. Yeah.
It's kind of a Kindle. Like, just because you have Photoshop doesn't make you a designer. Exactly.
You know, used to have to go through it with some strategy and insight on how you want How do you want to accomplish the goal that you're trying to accomplish on this web page?
Exactly. You know, and for the big companies, they generally keep their agency on to continue work on in Shogun and, you know, maintenance of that, you know, of that system and going as they go through design updates, etc.
Yeah, I like to work smarter and not harder, and I don't want to update copy for you. I want to show you how to do it.
Exactly. But the cool thing for those who are DIY who are on like a super tight budget Shogun gives you that ability, you know, to do it yourself, obviously, like it's gonna, it's not magic, you're going to have to put in the hours on, first of all, if you've never built a website and a page builder, you might take you to know, a couple of days to learn how to use the tool and get comfortable with it.
Um, but you know, from there, you know, going in and trying to learn some design principles and and You know building building out these pages obviously we you know we get some premium page templates to start but that's the cool thing about it is for those folks who are very very budget conscious and DIY this is a you know this there's also an option there.
So I am budget-conscious store owner what is the fee structure per show, God?
Yeah, so it is a monthly fee structure. We have plans starting out as low as $19 per month. And they go up obviously, we custom, we have custom enterprise deals with some of our very largest clients. But all of our self serve plans.
Most of our self serve plans are under $100. And again, they start off at at at $19. And I think the next one is up at 39. And we might actually be combining those two into a lower price point.
So the cool thing about that is everything if you're a DIY person, everything You need for building out all of your web pages, landing pages, blog pages, product pages are going to be on those lower your plans.
Um, you know, as you get up to the higher tier, that's where the fancier stuff starts to come in some of the developer tools, A/B testing will be on there, to begin with. But if you're doing DIY, you can start right there.
Now, some people they're like, I really don't want to pay every month, though. I don't want to be locked into this thing that I have to pay. Don't worry about it. You actually only have to pay for Shogun. When you're using it.
You can come in, hey, if you can build your whole website in our 10-day free trial, you don't need to pay anything for it. That's yeah, because and when you uninstalled Shogun, you keep your pages again, they are hosted by and served up by Shopify not by us.
That's awesome. That's awesome!
Yeah. now know that there is I will say most people, they, you know, that kind of they're like perfect, and then they start using it and then they realize I kind of have some changes. I want to make my website, you know, every month, so it ends up working out okay for us.
But at least you offer that.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, our goal is always to be user-friendly.
So as the co-founder, do you have any special discounts or deals that our listeners should know about?
Yeah, we absolutely do. We have a special one, for folks that are fans of the electric eye and this podcast for 20% off any Shogun plan for life. So this will just knock off 20% off of that price.
And you can I think I provided a link, but it's a special link. And so click that link. And then when you go and still say the same price as in the Shopify App Store. Don't let that scare you.
When you click to install the app, and the plans page is going to come up and that install flow and you'll see your discount pricing reflected there.
Yep. And I'll have that link in the show notes for anyone that's interested in trying it out with that discount.
And I just remember that we built like version 2.0 of electriceye's store because I don't know if anyone knows this, but electriceye's website is built on Shopify, and we built version2.0 is Shogun.
That's how we learned it. We're like, we'll just build our website with it.
Well, we are honored to have you as a client as well.
Right? Yeah, that's awesome. Cool. Well, is there anything else that you want to make sure that you let our listeners know?
Well, that's all I'm you know, happy holidays. You know, take this moment if you're somebody who's, you know, like my first entrepreneurial pursuit I started my agency and I was working like two jobs for for for two and a half years, getting it off the ground getting to a point where I could support first time you know, employees and another business partners and myself.
And so if you're somebody who's you know, who's working two jobs, but your end up you know, you got a little time over the holidays. Enjoy your time with family but stay on that grind and use some of those days off to focus on your business and just come into 2019 super strong.
Absolutely. Luckily, well, not luckily, I guess so this is going to come out after that. So you give them inspiration for the next holiday season.
Oh, yeah, that's right. My bad.
No worries, Nick, I can't thank you enough. You had a lot of awesome insights. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Yeah, thank you really, really great to be a guest.
We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing the truth. links and more will be available in the show notes. If you found any actionable advice in this podcast that you'd like to apply to your business, please reach out at electriceye.io/connect.
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