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Ep. 73 - Setting Expectations: What Should You Set and What Should Expect with Paul Rajotte

Paul Rajotte is the Senior DTC Advertising Strategist at Shoelace and former Growth Marketing at Bold Commerce. Specializing in Digital Marketing strategy for eCommerce brands helping them with user acquisition, site optimization, content, and customer retention. 

In This Conversation We Discuss:

  • [1:21] Quick background of what Shoelace is
  • [1:56] How Shoelace works with “The Funnel”
  • [3:24] Why customers seeing the same ad a bad thing
  • [4:08] Shoelace’s foray into the top of the funnel by introducing prospecting
  • [5:30] The core audience of Shoelace
  • [7:21] Shoelace is not only an app
  • [8:32] Paul working on higher-end customers of Shoelace
  • [9:13] Paul on using the Shoelaces app vs Facebook Business Manager
  • [10:25] Paul’s predictions on Facebook and Instagram this 2020
  • [12:26] Organic-looking ads perform but it depends on your audience
  • [15:38] Sponsor: Gorgias gorgias.link/honest
  • [16:27] Copywriter vs graphic designer. Which should you prioritize first?
  • [18:23] When does paid media make sense for an up and coming brand?
  • [20:05] It really takes time to be profitable.
  • [21:27] Being wary of guaranteed returns, especially for new brands
  • [23:18] The importance of setting expectations and communication
  • [25:05] Shoelace’s amazing guides
  • [27:12] Where to get ahold of Bruce

Resources:

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Transcript:

Paul Rajotte  

Push the boundaries of the [content] you're putting out there whether it's [for ad] copy or actual videos, and images, and all that sort of stuff.

 

Chase Clymer  

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, where we're dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. 

 

I'm your host Chase Clymer, and I believe running an online business does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

 

If you're struggling with scaling your sales, Electric Eye is here to help. To apply to work with us visit electriceye.io/connect to learn more. Now let's get on with the show.

 

Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honesty Ecommerce. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And today we welcome to the show, Paul

 

Paul is coming to us from Shoelace. And why I stumbled over that whole intro real quick was actually, it's the first time we've ever had aa guest from the same company or a repeat guest on. 

 

So, I'm going to call you a repeat guest, even though you're not just because we're learning a lot more about the company, and about the state of Ecommerce, and Facebook Ads. I'm gonna stop talking. Welcome to the show, Paul.

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs) That was quite the intro. Thanks for having me, Chase.

 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. I like to ramble sometimes. I've drank a lot of coffee. Working from home gets you wild. So let's get into it. (laughs) 

 

Paul Rajotte  

Well, it is St. Patrick's Day. Are you sure it's just coffee?

 

Chase Clymer  

We'll see. It is the afternoon now. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs) Right on. 

 

Chase Clymer  

Alrighty. So for our listeners that are unfamiliar with what Shoelace is [and] what Shoelace is about, you want to give the elevator pitch real quick?

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. So essentially, Shoelace is a retargeting platform for Ecommerce companies on Shopify. [We're] essentially an app or plugin --however you want to phrase it-- for the Shopify platform. 

 

We specialize in retargeting. And just so your listeners are aware, we're recently launching or have recently launched prospecting, as well. So we're getting into that avenue of advertising, as well. But primarily, we're known for our retargeting.

 

Chase Clymer  

Cool. I want to talk about prospecting here in a minute. I want to talk about retargeting now. So, the easiest way for those... Like the 100-level way to understand a funnel, the way I like to explain it, is your typical 3-step funnel. 

 

Is that where you guys begin with your explanation, or do you add a few more steps? How does your funnel work out when you're explaining how the funnel works in regards to the software you guys offer?

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah, so essentially, how we layer it is we've dubbed the term “Customer Journey Retargeting”. Where you might see a more traditional funnel with other businesses, we really like to expand that funnel a little bit more, segment those audiences as much as we can. 

 

Obviously, it's dependent on the business and the audience sizes and that sort of thing. We don't want our audiences to be too small, because then otherwise, Facebook really limits who you can target and how much spend and all that sort of good stuff. 

 

But essentially, yeah, we just want to help customers or stores in this case segment their audiences better. That way, you're not essentially showing the same message over and over and over to people in a really broad audience. 

 

That way, whether they be at a product page in the last 2 to 3 days, they're seeing one message. If it's been 7+ days that they've been to that page, they're seeing a different message, and so on and so forth. 

 

The further they get down the funnel, different messages they see. And if they're not engaging, then they're seeing at least a new message and not just the same retargeting DPA ad over and over and over for 30-40-60 days.

 

Chase Clymer  

I'm gonna just play dumb here. Why is that a bad thing? They're seeing my brand, they're seeing my ad. Why is it a big deal?

 

Mike Potter  

Yeah. (laughs) Well, if you think of it from just being someone who probably shops online, first of all, it's just annoying. 

 

If you're seeing the same ad, because you added an item to the cart or viewed a product page over and over and over again, those frequencies can get pretty high which obviously drives up the cost of your advertising and can probably just annoy the consumer as well. 

 

So if we're going to be hitting them daily, every couple days, whatever it is, we want to make sure that they're seeing a new fresh ad from you, a new message or maybe a new spin on an old message --that sort of thing-- to help with those frequency levels and just help reduce costs all the way through.

 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. And then just to clarify what Shoelace has been doing historically, back to what I was talking about, like the top, middle, and bottom of the funnel, you guys started in the middle to the bottom of the funnel. 

 

[It] was like the part that your software was owning, and that's where the expertise was. Now, you've added in the top of the funnel with prospecting, how recently did you do that? We're recording this in March. But how recently was that? 

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah, so it's very recent. There are customers that we had that came to us that we were doing retargeting for and they just either didn't trust who they're working with before or had issues. 

 

Maybe they were trying to do prospecting themselves and it just wasn't working out. And they are just essentially pleading with us to handle the prospecting for them. And where we had capacity, we did it. 

 

And for the most part we had some advertisers that were comfortable doing it [and] people on our team that were comfortable with it. That sort of thing. And the demand just grew and grew. 

 

And it obviously didn't make sense to be turning away customers, specifically people that are already paying us for service. [We're] just [essentially] adding another service or another part of the service to what we're doing for them. 

 

So we decided to roll it out this year. And it has been a slow rollout. We've basically been attacking --for the most part-- the customers that we're already servicing. And then now our sales team is really making a push to new customer acquisition.

 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. That's amazing! I will be very transparent and honest. In the past, I would recommend Shoelace to certain brands that were hitting a certain threshold and I would say, I'd be like "They are very, very good for retargeting. They've got to the middle and the bottom, and they're going to get to some good returns, but they don't do prospecting." 

 

So now I have to correct myself moving forward. I'm excited about that. So now, before we talk about how it works, I think we should talk about how Shoelace works. How much of it is the technology and how much is it the customer service reps? I don't know how you guys refer to your team members that helped these accounts as well.

 

Mike Potter  

Yeah, so we refer to them as account strategists. Account strategist, ad strategist, account managers, there's lots of different lingo for it. On our team, we just use “account strategist”. 

 

So, we have different offers dependent on the customer, and their monthly spend, and basically, all the requirements that they would need. We have different offers for them. Our core client is what you'll see, our pricing on the Shopify App Store, and on our website. That sort of thing. 

 

And that's I guess the more regular clients that we have. It's that in-between where they're doing some prospecting, they're doing some advertising, but they really don't understand retargeting at that point. 

 

And maybe they're small teams, they don't have someone with that expertise on their team so they look for us for that help. And then we offer the higher-end stores --people doing millions of dollars revenue monthly and spending tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in ad spend in a month-- we have services for them as well. 

 

Those are a little bit more customized and just a little bit more of a niche audience for us. Definitely something that we're growing with prospecting. So yeah. That's it. (laughs) Sorry. I lost my train of thought there. 

 

Chase Clymer  

No, no, no. Definitely not. I wanted to just... Maybe, I think about it the wrong way. I just want to clarify it for myself and for the audience listening that it is the combination of the strategists and the product that you have...

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. Sorry. 

 

Chase Clymer  

...that helps indicate these results, right. It's not just one or the other.

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. So that's the thing. We essentially use our product as the tool that gets them in the door. They see it and then we can set up the ads and the different targeting, all the information is within the app. Customers can review it. They can approve things. 

 

They can make edits if they want within the app, as well. It depends on how hands-on they want to be with the approach. And then you know, there are other clients, as well. 

 

They get to a certain point where using our app actually doesn't make sense for them anymore so we essentially become like more of a traditional agency where we use our tool for some parts of the process, but not for everything. 

 

Sometimes it might make more sense just to create ads in the actual ads manager account, and use it that way. But it definitely helps with like approvals, ad approvals, and editing customer communication. That kind of stuff.

 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. Now, with yourself being on the senior end of that spectrum, do you find yourself working with more of these higher-end enterprise deals that you have going on?

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah, that's definitely the customer that I would be working with. It's more of the higher end. I guess you could claim spending multiple thousands of dollars a month, whether that's in the tens or hundreds of thousands. 

 

And yeah. That's, I guess, the area that I specialize in, having come from past agencies and getting [the experience of] the agency and advertising business for close to 10 years. That's where I try to come in and provide expertise for the clients. And then also for our team as well, wherever I could be of use.

 

Chase Clymer  

So how excited are you to use Shoelace’s app instead of Facebook Business Manager half the time?

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs) It really depends. Obviously, I think anyone that would be listening [that] has done advertising with the ads manager can know that it can be a huge pain in the arse and definitely has its ups and its downs. 

 

Our software is definitely fairly easy to use and pretty straightforward. And like I mentioned before, it is really good for ad approvals, and edits, and optimizations, and all that sort of stuff. We have a dashboard within our platform that allows you to see results. 

 

So, that's pretty cool. Customers can go in there and check the results and see things if they're not comfortable and familiar with looking at the data within the ads manager. 

 

Chase Clymer  

Ah, I just wanted to make a joke at the business manager's expense. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs)

 

Chase Clymer  

It's literally the bane of my project manager’s existence. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

I know. You know what, I was trying to not rip into it too much. But yeah. (laughs) It's a pain in the ass.

 

Chase Clymer  

So yeah. [For] anyone listening, to get good at Facebook ads, you will learn that you are a victim of their tools. the strategy and stuff are all the same. It's just like "Alright. Well, we have to work within these weird confines." 

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. 

 

Chase Clymer  

So let's get more into the outlook of things. So we're doing this podcast in the beginning of 2020. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. 

 

Chase Clymer  

What do you see happening in Facebook and Instagram advertising this year?

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. So, there's lots of stuff to be... March 17th, we're doing it in the middle of the whole Coronavirus/COVID-19 melee. So that's having a pretty big effect, I think, overall, in terms of the cost of advertising. I promised a friend that I would mention that CPMs are going down. 

 

But CPMs are going down because everybody is reducing their ad spend for the most part. We're seeing changes in most accounts with ad spend and just results overall. 

 

But I think, with items specifically that are replenishable and things like cosmetics, we haven't really seen the effects of anything so far. 

 

Whereas, if you're looking at a company that sells clothing or jewelry, you might see some bigger drops in performance, just because those are things that people probably aren't worried about buying at the moment. 

 

So definitely, that's having some impact on Facebook advertising in general. And then coming up for 2020, I think, the biggest thing that we can see, and that we're looking forward to is mostly people getting really creative with advertising. 

 

These platforms aren't as young as they used to be. I know they're still really good for getting started, and finding an audience, and finding people to purchase. 

 

But there are just ads everywhere, whether it's on Facebook and Instagram or other platforms. People are just inundated with ads. So you really have to get creative and push the boundaries of what creative you're putting out there, whether it's copy or actual videos, and images, and all that sort of stuff. 

 

Traditionally, what we're seeing, the more traditional ads --like a basic DPA and that sort of stuff-- isn't working as well as it used to. So just seeing the different ways that advertisers are gonna make those changes, and possibly take chances with advertising like they would with organic content.

 

Chase Clymer  

I really like something that you said there where you're excited to see how people get creative. And I think that is one of the biggest differentiating factors between Facebook and Instagram, and more traditional ---say, like Google AdWords-- was where you had the whole creative element to it. 

 

And now you see that too with the new ones on the block. You got the Snapchats and the Tiktoks. And Pinterest is a unique hybrid between the two. They'd hate if I said that but it's where I see it. 

 

But yeah. It's the creative element of it. So from your opinion, --you're managing multiple thousands of ad spends-- What do you see, as far as creative goes... What is working for the clients that are spending the most and seeing the better returns as far as how they approach creative? 

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. So, I hate to give this as an answer, but (laughs) it really depends. But for the most part, I think the biggest change that we're seeing is that you don't have to have a big budget to find winning creative. 

 

Specifically, within Instagram and Stories placements for example. We're seeing a lot more clients go to your customers to go to an organic look and feel to their content, similar to the way you'd see brands post on their channels organically. 

 

You're seeing some of that content translate well to advertising. So you don't need to go out and shoot product and lifestyle images for 3 days and then go in the studio and create videos and images and all that sort of stuff. 

 

You can literally use your phone and create organic content, save it, put it in an ad, and get the same results. It's not going to work for everyone every time, but that's what we're seeing. Content doesn't have to be this huge production that it used to be in the past, to really stand out. And that's probably the biggest. 

 

For someone like myself who's creatively deficient, we'll say, in terms of creating content on my own, there are so many tools that are easy to use. 

 

And seeing that kind of organic look and feel [on] the content can really make an impact. I think that's really beneficial. That way it just lowers the bar for anyone getting into this.

 

Chase Clymer  

I just want to double-down there. We had a client last month. And by a long shot, the best-performing ad that we had going on last month was just a selfie video that she recorded on her phone in like 5 minutes because she's like, "We just need something for now." 

 

And she did it and that worked better than the other stuff. Yeah. There's something about the authenticity of it and it also goes into this whole "You don't know until you try it" [thing]. You have to test it, put it out there, and figure it out. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

That's 100% [true]. And it really depends on your audience too. If you're posting content that looks like that all the time and the content is landing, then why wouldn't you use that in your paid media? 

 

If you only have glamour shots and the most highly-produced content, and it does really well then, yeah. Holding a camera to your face and doing UGC might not work as well for you. 

 

But exactly that. We're just the type that we'll try to test everything, whether it's content, creative calls-to-action, whatever it is. You don't know until you try it and that's the biggest thing.

 

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Chase Clymer  

You've wrapped this up in the pre-show notes here. We have a great question here. So, I'm a smaller brand and we have a limited budget. This year, I want to improve my ads. And you pose this question as "Is it more important to hire a copywriter or a graphic designer?" And I'd love to just riff on that for a minute. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. I definitely think that from my perspective, like I said, I'm not the most creative person in the world when it comes to creating an image or a quick video or anything like that. But I think there are so many tools available to you. 

 

I mentioned Canva, an app similar to that. And even just using the platforms, like Instagram on your phone, and making content right there and save it into your phone for later. 

 

I just think there are so many options for people that aren't graphic artists to create content. And then I would probably go the route of a copywriter just because everything, where you can put copy on an ad, is just diminishing. 

 

I think they cut it off at three lines or even less sometimes, I feel like, for the "See More" button on Instagram ads. So you have such a limited space to put any sort of copy or messaging that I think, that's something that I would personally struggle with a lot more than creating maybe an image ad or something like that.

 

Chase Clymer  

I would take that question. And I would probably say if your budget is that limited, you'd be better served to invest that money in yourself and get some education to learn that skill. So (laughs) then you aren't on the hook for it...

 

Chase Clymer  

 ...until you scale to the point where, obviously, your time is better served elsewhere.

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs) Yes.

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. And I think in terms of copywriting too, that really reflects. That can improve your website, your email, a whole bunch of other marketing materials, as well. 

 

I could just be biased because copywriting has always been a power that I've never had. So, I think that's probably why I lean that way.

 

Chase Clymer  

So getting back to Shoelace, let's start to talk about when would an app like Shoelace or a partnership like Shoelace make sense to a brand? Starting I guess, on the lower end of stuff, what are your thoughts on when it's a good time to get into paid media for an up and coming brand?

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. I think whenever it makes sense for your business. They'll know before us whether there's a certain amount of their budget that they're willing to spend in the paid media. 

 

If you're brand new to paid media  (laughs) I would look at how much money are you willing to burn at first. 

 

Because when you're starting off, obviously, it's harder to get those returns, specifically with Facebook advertising. If you don't have any data on your Pixel, that sort of stuff, it just makes it a little bit more difficult. 

 

And then when to get into possibly partnering with Shoelace? If you're looking for someone to handle... Obviously we're big with retargeting, and we've mentioned the prospecting earlier. 

 

But for someone to partner with you and truly help you get established and figure out the best ways to tackle those audiences, and those different segments, then that's where we would be able to come in. 

 

If you're dealing with really small budgets, it might be something where you could look at, we have some smaller integration packages and stuff like that where people can get started and have a little bit of help figuring it out. And then once they're able to scale up a little bit, then we have --like I mentioned before-- we have our core customers. 

 

And then [for] our VIPs, if you will, you get a lot more hands-on and you get those account strategists and people to help you with the strategy behind the advertising, not just "Here's an app that can power your store." 

 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. You mentioned something that I want to just bring up here. And it's if you're just getting started, you have no data on your Pixel which means you don't have any traffic that's on your site. You have just launched this brand. 

 

A, when you said "How much money are you willing to burn?", that is not like a far-off statement. It is very hard to find a profitable prospecting audience that it's going to turn out money on the other side, especially now more than ever. 

 

You said earlier "It's a lot more mature of a platform." It's so hard to find a profitable top-of-the-funnel campaign, especially for a brand that has no track record going for it. So I just wanted to  preach the truth there to try to help people understand that it's a hard cookie to crumble. I don't know. That's not even a phrase.

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs)  I understand you're going with that one. I agree it was not a phrase. But yeah. I do a little bit of freelance work and I work with some small/medium Ecommerce companies here in Canada. 

 

And yeah, that's when one thing that I talked to them about when they first get started. If we got absolutely zero return, [up until] what [amount] are you okay to spend and it's not going to crumble your business or anything like that?

 

Chase Clymer  

Yep. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

And that's just the conversation I'd like to have with people upfront. I'm not saying that you're going to lose all that money. 

 

But there is a chance in the early stages that you're not going to see great returns. So are you comfortable with that? And is that something that you can afford to do?

 

Chase Clymer  

Oh absolutely. You have to set the expectations and that actually teased me up for what I also wanted to say here. I would be wary of any freelancer, consultant, agency, or even app that will guarantee you something in return when it comes to any form of advertising. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. 

 

Chase Clymer  

Especially at that stage. You can have a good feeling about stuff. When a brand's a little more mature, you can have a good feeling about things. Like, you have some data here, all these attributes, point to “This is probably going to be successful.” 

 

But anyone starts guaranteeing stuff, especially for young brands and startups, I would be so cautious of working with them.

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. That's definitely something that we... That I and shoelace don’t want to do. Even sometimes when we put out... Everyone builds marketing materials that have really great data behind them and that sort of thing. 

 

And I'm always very cautious about talking about that because those are usually best-case scenarios. 

 

Sometimes we'll put out content and it's the average of an entire year as opposed to like, "Hey, we ran this one campaign and got 35% ROAS on a campaign." But what you don't know is that the customer is offering 40% off or something like that.

 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. I mean, we got a return on ad spends the other week of 42% or something. And that was a fluke. if you looked at the blended [ROI]...

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah.

 

Chase Clymer  

...I think it was down to like 7% or something like that. And she was also doing a sale and she got a bump in traffic from some other source. So, yeah. Definitely take some of the numbers with a grain of salt.

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah, for sure. There's always an asterisk, right?

 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. That just comes to how honest you want to be in this business. You can take data and manipulate it to say anything you want, which is weird, I think, to think about here. So we like to focus on certain KPIs at the agency

 

But whenever we start relationships with clients, it's always like "We're gonna explain what these KPIs are. We want to make sure that you're comfortable with what we think the goal should be." And like set expectations of like "This is what we think can happen. Are we all okay with finding out?"

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs)That's a great way to put it. And I think it's the same thing, whether it's depending on whatever KPIs you're tracking, and that your clients or businesses you're working with want to track. 

 

As long as everyone's aligned, and open, and honest about that, in terms of communication. Don't get me wrong. And you know this as well. There's gonna be some weeks, some months, some quarters where you're not hitting expectations. 

 

But when it comes down to that, if you're managing those expectations, and you're communicating that with your clients just like we are right now. 

 

In the middle of the COVID-19 stuff, we have clients where ROAS is dropping, and there's not a whole lot we can do to avoid it besides reducing ad spend and trying to work on other things that might be able to help them. 

 

But the fact of the matter is,  it's something that's going to affect their business, it's going to affect the results. And if you're communicating that often and being clear about it, then usually there isn't a problem.

 

Chase Clymer  

Oh, absolutely. I think communication helps with just any business relationship. Just being more communicative. You know what's funny though is (laughs) I remember us setting up this podcast and why we were going to talk was something that we didn't actually talk about today. 

 

So (laughs) I'm gonna bring it up real quick here towards the end. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs) Sure. 

 

Chase Clymer  

You guys produced an amazing piece of content last year. And you put it out a few weeks ago, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners haven't heard of it yet. But you made an amazing guide. Do you want to kind of talk a bit more about what you guys put together?

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. Our sales and marketing team put together a guide called the 7 Biggest Lessons in Social Retargeting. And essentially, what we learned from running over 10,000 campaigns in 2019 was the basis of it. 

 

And yeah. It goes through everything from A/B testing, and direct response advertising, copywriting. --what we talked about before in terms of how reduced that area for copy really is--, audience fatigue... 

 

It touches a little bit on CBOs and how that affects your retargeting tools. And then even there, I'd mentioned one thing that it calls out: Instagram. Using polls on Instagram ads. 

 

So that's like what we talked about using that organic look and feel to run advertising. So yeah. [It's] a really good resource. 

 

Obviously, it's available on our website. But [it] just really breaks down a lot of things that we saw within retargeting in 2019 and a lot of good little pieces of information that I think brands could use as a guide going forward. 

 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. And that piece of content is free. 100% free. Just go and download it and learn your face off. I actually read the whole thing. It was super eye-opening. 

 

It makes me want to get back behind the wheel of some of our ad accounts. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs)

 

Chase Clymer  

But I think Ryan would kick my butt if I did that.

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs) Yeah. There's a whole other thing, too. We got a bunch of guides on that page and some of them talk about customers. Some of the older ones are about customer journey retargeting, our whole philosophy on advertising. 

 

We were talking before about segmenting your audience more and adding more messaging to your retargeting so people aren't getting fatigued by the same ads over and over and over again.

 

Chase Clymer  

Oh yeah. Absolutely. And then to get those guides, it's obviously gonna be in the show notes, but it's just shoelace.com --spelled like it sounds-- /guides. 

 

Paul Rajotte  

That's it. 

 

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Paul, if they want to get a hold of you and ask you more about any of these guides or what's going on with customer journey retargeting or just Shoelace in general, how do they get a hold of you?

 

Paul Rajotte  

Anyone can just email me. paul@shoelace.com or I'm trying --as many people are trying-- to up my personal brand on Twitter. I believe it's just @paulbruce_. Bruce is my middle name. I think that's it.

 

Chase Clymer  

That's what you put here in the show notes.

 

Paul Rajotte  

Yeah. (laughs) That's it. Yeah. And everyone asked me why it's Paul Bruce. And it's because it's my middle name. And at first, when I joined social media, I didn't want anyone to find me. So Paul Bruce is my name on all social platforms.

 

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Well, Paul Bruce, thank you so much for joining us today.  (laughs)

 

Paul Rajotte  

(laughs) I appreciate it a lot. Thanks for having me.

 

Chase Clymer  

I cannot thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their journey and knowledge with us today. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add to our businesses. Links and more information will be available in the show notes as well. 


If anything in this podcast resonated with you and your business, feel free to reach out and learn more at electriceye.io/connect. Also, make sure you subscribe and leave an amazing review. Thank you!