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The Focus on Brand over Strategy with Danny Charbonnet - Honest Ecommerce Ep. 197

Danny Charbonnet started All Citizens a few years ago after searching through endless aisles and websites for new boxer briefs.

Charbonnet realized that guys really only have 3 options for underwear; bargain big box retailers, expensive designer labels, or new online brands with designer label prices. 

This led him to ask himself “why can’t I get a whole week’s worth of great underwear for under $100?” This question sparked the idea for him to create a new category in menswear - premium, performance-based apparel at an exceptional value. 

Charbonnet started All Citizens with $3,000 and no design, retail, fashion or ecommerce background, but the outsider’s view enabled me to build a brand that is truly customer first without the baggage of the traditional retail model. 

Although I started with boxer briefs, We’ve expanded to offer everything from performance dress shirts to adventure-ready sunglasses under the singular mission of democratizing comfort. 

In This Conversation We Discuss:

  • [00:00] Intro
  • [01:08] How All Citizens democratize comfort
  • [02:00] Danny’s realization with men’s underwear
  • [03:34] The question that sparked All Citizens
  • [04:04] Addressing men’s underwear pain points
  • [05:47] Creating a product with no background
  • [06:34] The struggle between price and quality
  • [07:25] Danny’s last hope for manufacturing
  • [08:14] Negotiating as a smaller brand
  • [09:39] The first years of the brand are the easiest
  • [10:03] Still working with the factory on the story
  • [10:22] Sponsor: Electric Eye electriceye.io
  • [10:42] Sponsor: Mesa apps.shopify.com/mesa
  • [11:42] Sponsor: Loop loopreturns.com/honest
  • [12:24] Sponsor: Klaviyo klaviyo.com/honest
  • [13:28] The reverse go-to-market strategy
  • [14:00] Messaging and product over growth
  • [15:04] All Citizens’ sudden growth spikes
  • [16:45] Virality isn’t a good strategy
  • [17:21] Providing the best sets you up for success
  • [18:33] Chasing virality is unproductive and unrealistic
  • [19:02] Why All Citizens doesn’t sell on Amazon
  • [21:07] All Citizens’ current marketing mix
  • [23:52] Not capitalizing on the golden age of FB ads
  • [24:31] Marketing and ad agencies have high churn rates
  • [24:52] Marketing strategy is about balancing channels
  • [29:08] Find All Citizens and their other products

Resources:

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Transcript:

Chase Clymer  

Hey listeners before we get started if you're enjoying these episodes, you can actually check them out on YouTube in full video, you can just search honesty, commerce and you'll get pulled right to our channel. Make sure you subscribe and ring the bell for all the updates.

Danny Charbonnet  

Entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart. I think that people should take that type of leap very seriously, because you could have really just drained your 401k and your savings and then end up with nothing.

Chase Clymer  

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating real results. 

I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.

Let's get on with the show.

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. 

And today, we're welcoming the show, the founder of All Citizens, a direct-to-consumer menswear brand committed to democratizing comfort. 

Welcome to the show, Danny.

Danny Charbonnet  

Thanks for having me, Chase. Appreciate the time.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. So tell me what is this brand doing? How are you democratizing comfort?

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, that's a great question. So we're focused on democratizing comfort by doing a few things. 

The first is we create and invest in creating the best pound-for-pound performance products that are made with high-performance fabrics, and are packing tons of smart features, that we offer them at much more accessible prices. 

So we say it's "wallet-friendly prices". And then we also create a much better experience for all stakeholders. So that's not just our customers, but it also involves our investors, obviously. But then "People, Planet, and Profit" is what we say. So trying to deliver into a triple bottom line. 

I'm happy to go into more detail about the products that would create… How we're investing those products, as well as how we streamline our business and deliver more value to our customers and all the other stakeholders as well.

Chase Clymer  

Well, yeah. 

The quick answer, I guess, would be [to] talk about the first couple of products that you were bringing to market.

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, absolutely. So I was living in New York a few years ago. And I was working in consulting, making good money.

 

And I reached a point in my life where I felt like it was time to grow up from the clothes that my mom bought from me in high school and college and start buying my own clothes.

And so [as] most clueless guys shopping for themselves the first time, I went to a department store. I went to Macy's, Nordstrom, checked out a few different brands from Calvin Klein, Hugo Boss, all those designer labels that cost $30 - $40 - $50, a pair. Bought a few pairs of those. 

I also searched online and found a few like online, direct-to-consumer brands. Bought a few pairs of those. 

And I also went to Target and Walmart and bought the mass market bargain brands. And so with these 3 different groups of products. I tried on 20 different brands. And what I realized was that good underwear is really expensive and affordable options just aren't comfortable. 

And so on one end of the spectrum, you have these bargain multipack brands from Target and Walmart and they're very affordable, but they're also very low quality, and they wear out, and get itchy and scratchy after 6 to 9 months. 

You have to throw them out and buy a new pack within a year. On the other end of the spectrum, you have these designer labels that are really focused on aesthetic and branding rather than product function, and versatility, and comfort. 

And they cost you know, again, $40 or $50 per pair. And then somewhere in the middle, you have these new direct-to-consumer brands that are creating marginally improved products, but are still charging designer label prices. And so they range between $24 to $42 per pair. 

And so this led me to ask, "Why are comfort and affordability mutually exclusive?" And that was the question that sparked the idea for All Citizens. 

It led me down into going to trade shows, and creating the product, and spending months trying to find the right factory. And I can get into more of that story later on. But yeah, that was the genesis of the product. 

And so I didn't just want to create a new brand, create a new underwear product, and just go to market, and start selling. I want to really focus on addressing all the common pain points that guys have with underwear. 

And so Chase, I'm not going to ask you what underwear you're gonna wear. But let's just assume that you wear boxer briefs for instance. And so the problem with boxer briefs is that you put them on, they fit great, they fit snug and and feel comfortable. 

But as soon as you start walking around or sitting down at your desk, standing back up, gonna get a drink, the legs just ride up like crazy, right? So you constantly pull them down. It's awkward to [keep] tugging on your pants in your office and stuff. 

Another issue that guys have is like heat and sweat down there, especially during the hot and humid months of New York. And then not to get too graphic but  a big issue that men have is that your goods stick to your thighs. 

And so what I wanted to do was create a very specific design that addressed each and every pain point. So what I started with was like a list of 20 different pain points that guys have, and just drawing out, and figuring out what design could address that pain point. And that's how... 

That's what I carried forward in terms of all of our products is that we don't just want to create a new dress shirt or like create a t-shirt. 

We want to create a much better product, investing in high-performance fabrics, creating all these smart designs and packing them into this product.

And then figuring out a way to offer it at a much more accessible price point. So our price points are half the price of other competing and comparable premium brands. So our products are $16 and $18 for 2 different underwear lines.

Chase Clymer  

Gotcha. Alright, so the first product that you did bring to market though was the brief, correct? 

Danny Charbonnet  

Boxer briefs. Yep.

Chase Clymer  

Alright. So tell me about that. So you go from "Alright, I see a hole in the market here with all these..."

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

"...products between comfort and price. There's definitely a delta here and I want to fill that void."

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

How long did it take you from having that concept in your head...

Danny Charbonnet  

 Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

...to having a sample?

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, man. So Chase, to give you a background, I don't come from a design or retail or Ecommerce background. 

I had no experience in creating any products, let alone clothing. I come from a very boring management/consulting background. And so when I was creating this product, it really came from a solution standpoint.

I was trying to figure out solutions to all the lists of problems or pain points that I had and other men had. And so I started off by just going to trade shows in New York, where there's a Javits Center trade show... I forgot the name. 

But I went there, talked to a lot of factories, met a lot of suppliers, and from there over the course of the next 9 months, I was meeting with 6 different factories; Some in Bangladesh, in Korea, in Taiwan, in China, in the US and I'll just meet... 

I met with 6 different factories over the course of these nine months. And the problem was that every single factor that I worked with, just could not create the level of quality that I wanted at the price point that I wanted.And it was always like quality and  price were always in competition with one another. 

So you'll find a factory that had the most amazing quality, had really good craftsmanship, had really good materials, but then the price was just way too high. I wasn't able to bring the product to market at a price that I thought was "wallet-friendly". I didn't want to launch another $40 premium brand for a pair of underwear. 

So after 6 months of working with 6 different factories, just being let down with prototype after prototype, I almost just gave up on the idea. 

I was like, "This is clear that you need a background on this. You need a network, you need connections, I just don't have it. I don't have any of this, I'm just gonna go back and then give up on this." 

And in the 10th month, I get like a random... I reached out to one person I met at a trade show randomly [as a] last last ditch effort. 

And they put me in touch with someone who then put me in touch with someone who worked at a factory that produced for Calvin Klein and several other designer labels. And so I was like "Jackpot. This is perfect." 

But being very inexperienced, I didn't realize that this factory is used to producing millions of units every month. And I was coming to them with $3,000 and being like "Can you guys create a few 100 units for me?" 

So we go back and forth to create a prototype. They think I'm a big brand, but I don't realize that they think I'm a big brand. So they're just entertaining me. And we finally created... 

After the 3rd or 4th prototype, we created a product that I'm super proud of. And this was like version 0 or version 1 back in the day. Excuse me. 

And so finally, I'm holding a product that is not only the right price point, but also the right quality and performance and all the features that I wanted. The right craftsmanship. 

And so I was like "Great. Let's go to production, I'm ready. Here's $3,000. I want to purchase a few 100 units." And the guy was like, "What are you talking about? We cannot move forward with this." So we go back and forth for a while. 

And he's finally like, "Look, you need to talk to the factory owner. I can't help you here. This has to be his decision." So I set up a call with the factory owner. He lives in Hong Kong. And he was... 

I think the call was just meant to be a 10-minute conversation where he lets me down gently and it ended up being an hour and 15 minute conversation where I'm just sharing with him what I'm seeing in the men's underwear market. 

Why Calvin Klein and all these brands are not doing right by customers. And also the mass market brands are not delivering the quality that customers deserve. 

And so I explained the void of the market, the opportunity that I'm seeing, and my vision for the brand. "We want to create the most customer-centric, product focused apparel brand out there. And the only way to do that is to deliver more value to customers. Better products, fewer dollars." 

And so he was like, "Look, it's very clear that you are passionate about this. It's very clear that you seem like you know what you're doing. I'm happy to take a risk on you. “

“Just pay me a slightly larger deposit upfront and work during the offseason when we're not producing so much for other brands. And then we can go from there." And then it was off to the races. 

And so what I realized after I had the first production... We sent all the boxes into my tiny little apartment in New York and I was keeping it in my closet and underneath my bed to fulfill orders. 

And what I realized is the 10 months of struggle that I went through to create the product was ground zero. It was like... It was nothing compared to the next few years of just slog, going through and trying to scale the brand. 

So that's actually the easiest part of my journey. I have to say.

Chase Clymer  

Are you still working with that factory?

Danny Charbonnet  

Absolutely. And they have been surprised... I think they were surprised by our growth. I think factories get... 

I think, especially big and reputable factories, get approached by a million different brands. 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah.

Danny Charbonnet  

And so I think they were surprised by our growth and we've been with them ever since. And they've been a fantastic partner so far.

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Chase Clymer  

Yeah, let's not try to tell the end of the story upfront. Let it go a little bit. Alright, so you guys built... 

You got this awesome product, you found an amazing partner to help you manufacture this. Now you have a product in your hand. 

How do you sell this? What's your go-to-market strategy strategy? How are you getting customers that aren't your mom, dad, and friends?

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, it's funny, because go-to-market strategy... 

When I worked in consulting, I knew go-to-market strategy and I had a really good understanding of how to build a go-to-market strategy and plan for very large corporations, like massive multibillion dollar corporations. 

That did not translate very well to a nimble startup that was a few hundred dollars in revenue back then. 

And so again, [with] no experience in Ecommerce, no experience in marketing really. And so what I really focused on... 

When I started the brand, I didn't focus on growth initially. What I really focused on was like, getting the messaging right, and getting the product right. 

And so actually, by the time I launched, I sold to... 

I sold the first few 100 units, friends and family. They were very supportive. But again, it was an initial launch, friends and family bought it, and some of them came back and bought more, and then it dipped down a bit from there. And they're actually providing a lot of feedback in terms of how to improve the product. 

And so, by the time a lot early on, within a few months, I launched version two of the product pretty quickly. 

And it was like a  much better product with actual customer feedback. And so from there, again, the brand was doing maybe 2... Tens or maybe hundreds of dollars a day. It was a very small type of brand and no real scale or plan or go-to-market strategy. 

And again, I was really focused on just nailing the product. And so I think when I launched... I had version two. It was like. Personally... 

Maybe I'm a bit biased, but I would say a lot of our customers said that it was the best product ever seen. And this is coming from someone who had no experience in creating a product. And so within a few months actually, we started... 

I started noticing an uptick in traffic to the website and uptick in sales. And I traced that back to forums like Reddit and Facebook and stuff where people were like sharing the brand and talking about the product. 

And then out of nowhere, a month after, I started noticing this trend. I woke up one day and all my inventory was completely sold out. And I had no idea what the hell was going on. And so again, I traced it back and figured it out. There were these... 

There was a person that wrote on Reddit that had gone through a very similar journey that I had gone through: Trying 20 different brands online and offline and just rating all of them. 

He built like an Excel [sheet] of all these features and considerations as columns and then all these brands as the rows. 

And he actually selected All Citizens as the number one brand beating out a lot of the all the direct-to-consumer online brands that you hear of in podcasts today, as well as the designer brands. And that absolutely blew my mind. 

And shortly after, thankfully, I had inventory that was coming in the next month. So that was good timing. But thankfully, I was able to get the inventory back up. 

But then again, we sold out for a second time within the next month because someone else on a different website wrote another review.

And so all these people were talking about the brand, and more people were hearing about it through word of mouth. And just real, honest people just writing a review being like, "Hey, this is my experience with 30 - 40 brands that I tried out. This is where I rank everyone." 

And so that was probably the early stages of growth is really focused on the product and that generates a lot of word of mouth. 

And since then, we've gotten a lot more sophisticated in how we're scaling, but we'll share more about that later.

Chase Clymer  

Man. It's funny, I talk a lot to brands... We do a lot of work on websites at the agency, right? 

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

"Cool. We do this thing or we fix this stuff. And then what happens? How are we getting traffic?" Right?

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

And, it's less likely these days that someone will be like, "Oh, we're gonna go viral." (laughs) That's something that you can't plan. Right? 

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

You'll never in your life be able to force virality. 

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

There's a lot of stuff that you can weigh in your basket like...

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

[having] a great video team that makes a super comedic thing. Maybe that will do it, but you never know. Right? 

Danny Charbonnet  

Right. 

Chase Clymer  

So that's, that's something where I just say, "Well, that's impossible. What else do you do?" [That's] usually my answer, but it's awesome to hear when it does happen. 

And I guess what you did to make that happen was you made the best product that you could at the best price point, giving the best value that you could to the customers. And that's what really helped set you apart.

Danny Charbonnet  

That's exactly it. And just to piggyback off your point about the virality effect, it's funny, because I talked to a few of these advisors and partners and stuff and they're always like... 

They always give examples and advice based on an example of  one of their favorite brands that they're seeing. For example, I forgot the name of the brand. It's like a soap company.

Chase Clymer  

Mm-kay.

Danny Charbonnet  

And the soap company, they make absolutely hilarious videos on their social media. And they're essentially... 

They're not even a soap company, but a media or a content generating company that sells soap on the back end. And so... 

Chase Clymer  

That's what you got to do these days.

Danny Charbonnet  

Right. And they were like, "It's so easy. All you gotta do is hire the right creative team. You create these videos and you just go viral." 

And it's like, "Yeah, but it doesn't work like that. You don't know if your personality is gonna resonate with the market or your community and stuff." 

So it's just funny the type of virality... I hate that word because you just... Again, it's not planned.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. Here's a sneak peek everyone to the ebook that I've been promising forever. There's a whole... I talk about this in the book about like your... 

Danny Charbonnet  

Oh really?

Chase Clymer  

What affects conversion rate? One of the things [that affect conversion rate is] going viral. If Kim K wears your product, you're probably going to get some traffic. 

But I guarantee that you're not getting your product and Kim K's hand. So why are you going to spend energy doing that? 

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point.

Chase Clymer  

Talk about the things you actually can do. But let's get back to you. Let's get back to the brand. So Reddit loves you. 

Danny Charbonnet  

(laughs) Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

I'm assuming that your orders are going up, you're starting to get more inventory in. Now, are you only in your own direct-to-consumer store or are you also selling on Amazon? Doing both or just one?

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, it's great. It's funny, because I actually came from Amazon. I used to work at Amazon’s Cloud Computing group. So not the retail side. 

But I had a lot of co-workers that left retail to join the cloud group and so I hear stories about their days in retail. And it's funny because I absolutely do not sell on Amazon simply because... 

Don't get me wrong. I love the company. 

Obviously, I'm a shareholder and I was an employee for several years but I actually do not sell on Amazon. There's some secondary reasons for why I don't sell on Amazon for faults of their own. But the primary thing is I don't think you can build a brand on Amazon. 

You can sell a commodity on Amazon no problem, but my boxer briefs are listed next to a million other pairs of boxers that are all $3 or $4. And so what I... 

One is your pictures are the same exact pictures as everyone else's pictures because you have to have a white background, one picture, one still image and so you're very undifferentiated. 

And then the type of information you can put on a product page is very limited as well. So it's very hard to tell the thought and the features that go into the product. 

Our brand, if you go on our website, is very visual. We're in the process of adding 3D models for all of our products, so that you can explore the products in much more detail visually rather than reading through "Here's feature number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.” That's boring. 

And so I don't sell on Amazon, because again, like you just... I don't see that I can build all systems as a homegrown brand on Amazon. I could sell like a commodity on Amazon but just not... 

Yeah. I don't see that in my future so far. Marketplaces and stuff, again, I don't see that in our future yet. Again, it's not a no, but maybe sometime in the future. But not purely through our store right now... 

And we've done a pop up actually in Singapore that's gone pretty well. And so we're actually kind of considering expanding our pop-ups throughout the US, and then expanding to the UK and Australia very soon.

Chase Clymer  

That's awesome. So let's fast forward a bit. What does the strategy look like these days? What's the mix like? And obviously, how has iOS and all the fun stuff that's happened in the past couple of years affected...

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

...the marketing strategies at All Citizens? 

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think going back to your point about virality, I think part of your marketing strategy has to be sampling and trying out everything. 

And so I think the standard direct-to-consumer playbook, if you will, if you start with the product, you start making a little bit of money. So you start putting money into... 

Or you go and raise like a small seed round from VCs, and you pour like $3 million into Facebook and Google ads. That's like step one. 

Then you start expanding to TikTok, and maybe even Snapchat, and maybe Pinterest, depending on your product and your demographics. And that's step two. 

But again, social media advertising is phase one. Phase two is when you start scaling into like PR, affiliate and a few other types of channels. 

And even exploring, opening up new channels like physical retail, maybe a small pop-up on a department store. But again, it's about... And we're very much in phase two where we're exploring all these new channels. 

And again, it's like, I have a very clear idea and a map of what the next 2 years looks like in terms of marketing and channel expansion, and country expansion, and then all of that. But I can't tell you whether or not any of those are going to work. 

And so again, I think, it's about having a very strong conviction and a strong vision about what you think you need to do, and start executing, and something may happen from that. So for instance, when I first started... 

I didn't start Facebook advertising until a year or two into All Citizens. And Facebook was like... 

This was pre iOS 14. And Facebook was still a pretty good channel but I hadn't cracked the code. I hadn't figured it out, so I was working with an agency. The ROI wasn't quite there. And then out of nowhere that we created a... created 20 different... Sorry. 10 different ads, video and photo ads. 

And out of nowhere, one of my least favorite photo ads blew up, right. And so again, that was like... I would have never guessed that that was the one that was going to carry it a bit for the next month.

And so again, it's about experimenting and being really creative with how you test out all the different channels, being really creative with how you create content as well. 

And then whatever works, you double down on that, and reinvest, and try to replicate that. So that's the strategy in phase two, moving forward.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. Now, looking back on everything that you've done and all the choices you've made and all the tests that you ran figuring stuff out, does anything stand out to you as maybe a mistake that you made that you were like, "Hey, we did this. [It] didn't really work out so well everybody."

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah. I think I got into Facebook a bit late. So I only started the brand a few years ago and I think there was kind of like a golden age of Facebook where you literally throw anything, any dollar amount at any crappy image as your ad on Facebook and you get like $10 Back in ROI.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. We were there for it and it is nowhere near it anymore. Actually just... 

Danny Charbonnet  

Absolutely not. Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. We don't even offer Facebook ads anymore at the agency. 

Danny Charbonnet  

Really? 

Chase Clymer  

We sunset the offering just because we are way better than other things.

Danny Charbonnet  

ROAS, it's not there. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing... 

Chase Clymer  

It's also unfortunate that marketing and advertising as a service is... This is a little inside baseball, I guess. 

But [it] is the highest churn rate offering that you'll ever have at a service business. 

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

And there are much more lucrative and partnered offerings that you can have. So for longevity of the agency, we narrowed our focus.

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely.  I can tell you right now our Facebook ROAS is not horrendous. It's like a drug right? It's like... It keeps coming back for more and every day just gets worse and worse, and you have to  pay more like a pay-to-play type of thing. And it's just... Yeah, it's not... 

Facebook has not been great. But actually on the other end of the spectrum, Google for some reason is doing fantastic. And then TikTok is also doing pretty solid too. 

So, again, it's about balancing it out. I think we're probably gonna phase out of Facebook a little bit more and shift more resources into the other channels pretty soon. But no... So this was like pre iOS 14. 

I feel like I got to interface a little late in the game so I missed out on that whole D2C growth period on a very easy scale. And then when iOS 14 hit, it was just like crap hit the fan. Things just  tanked immediately. 

And so we're carrying on with Facebook. It's still a pretty good channel. But again, it's like a drug. The ROAS is barely there but it's good enough to be barely profitable. Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

So is there anything I didn't ask you about today that you think would be worthwhile to share with our audience?

Danny Charbonnet  

I think an interesting topic now is... You hear about this great resignation that's going on. I feel like a lot of people are... 

A lot of people have gone through COVID and taken a step back and reassess what makes them happy. "What do I really want to be doing with my time and my life?" 

And ultimately that boils down to like, what, what will I be doing for my career and my job and my work everyday? 

And I think that the media right now romanticizes entrepreneurship. Don't get me wrong. When I was at Amazon, all I thought about all day was "I need to... I want to quit Amazon. I want to start All Citizens. This is going to be great. This is going to be [fantastic]..." 

"This is going to scale the idea. I'm in love with my product. The idea is there. I talk to a lot of people, they all say it's a great idea. Let's go." 

And, what you don't realize is that corporate life creates a very comfortable lifestyle. I had a very good salary, I had a job where I had to really screw up in order to get fired. So it's very stable. 

The shares of Amazon were appreciating like crazy. And so it was like this safety net was completely ripped from below me. 

And so you're like... Once you get bitten by this entrepreneur bug, like, I don't think I can go back to corporate probably for a really long time. But you just dive in headfirst.

And when I dove into All Citizens head first, things were going fantastic for the first few months. And then reality started to hit. And I was like, "My savings account is going down." And I've cut back on personal spend and all of that. 

And my identity used to be like, "Yeah, I used to lead a 40-person team globally for Amazon. And we would sign multimillion dollar deals with these large corporations." And my identity turned into "I sell underwear online." And it's a very different type of conversation. Right. And so I think entrepreneurship gets romanticized in the media. 

You only hear about the success stories. And so you're skewed to think that like, "This is going to be a glorious path. It's going to be hard work, but it's going to be very entertaining, and it'll be rewarding." And I feel like that's very rarely the case. And it's like an emotional roller coaster. 

And again, I worked at Amazon. Very challenging job, very challenging company and culture. And I was never... I was never really stressed. 

There were stressful times, and stressful periods, and deadlines we had to hit, but I was never just overly stressed when I lost sleep at night. And man... And I was very... I would consider myself very emotionally and mentally stable in that sense with a corporate job. 

But man, I've never been more insecure and the most confident my entire life that I have been working on All Citizens. 

And I think that entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart. I think that people should take that type of leap very seriously, because you could really just drain your 401k and your savings and then end up with nothing. And so I think that... 

Just be careful with what you read in the media because it's like survivor's bias. You only hear about the success stories.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. No, Danny, I appreciate you sharing that with our audience. It's definitely a very honest look into it. It gets scary at times. 

The money never comes as quick or as much as you think it does. So it rarely coincides with what your plans are. 

Danny Charbonnet  

(laughs) 

Chase Clymer  

That's the unfortunate truth of it. 

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

Let's switch to a more positive note. You guys have... You're not just selling boxes anymore. I know you've got a few other products. 

And we've been talking about how awesome they are and how much you love to put the time and energy into making the most valuable thing you can for your customers. 

So where can they check them out? And what are some of the other products that you have?

Danny Charbonnet  

Yeah, absolutely. So you can check them out at allcitizens.com And that has the entire breadth of our products. We ship within the US. We ship within two-days shipping. 

On our website we claim 3 days just to like under promise and over deliver but we've just invested and built out a really large fulfillment network in the US that allows us to reach all customers in the 48 states within two-day shipping. So I'm really proud of that. 

And I would say like our boxer briefs and... Our Paradise Pocket Boxers are absolutely our number one best seller. And then again the whole ball separation thing has been an absolute game changer. And it's a patent pending design as well. 

So it's like a lot of thought and research went into it. I would say like one of our other best selling products, our performance dress shirts. Typically performance dress shirts, nowadays, you see them for about like $125 - $150, for sure. 

Ours are $68 and [we're] actually working on trying to reduce that in the future, because we've reached enough scale that we can get a bit of economies of scale, and pass the savings on to our customer. 

But yeah, performance dresses are by far our second or third best selling products. They're incredibly lightweight and comfortable, moisture wicking, and quick drying. 

And very stretchy and wrinkle resistant, which is the most important thing for lazy guys like me. So yeah, check them out at allcitizens.com.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. Danny, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Danny Charbonnet  

Awesome. Thanks so much, Chase. Talk to you soon.

Chase Clymer  

Alright. I can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. 

We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

Make sure you head over to honestecommerce.co to check out all the other amazing content that we have.
Make sure you subscribe, leave a review. And obviously if you're thinking about growing your business, check out our agency at electriceye.io. Until next time.