Ross is the founder of ShopCreatify, a Shopify/Shopify Plus expert, and Ecommerce consultant. He spent 23 years experience in digital design, 20 years focused on web, 10 years in Ecommerce and 5yrs in Shopify exclusively.
In This Conversation We Discuss:
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:59] Ross’s journey in Ecommerce
- [03:02] Serendipity is a part of success
- [04:10] About their focus on Shopify
- [06:25] Sponsor: Gorgias gorgias.grsm.io/honest
- [07:15] Working as a remote agency
- [09:04] COVID changed agency preferences
- [09:42] The process of working remotely
- [11:48] Handling projects for BFCM
- [15:09] Sponsor: Postscript postscript.io/install
- [15:39] Prepare early for BFCM
- [17:14] Setting your clients’ expectations
- [18:27] That importance of promptness in emails
- [18:57] Removing features to go live
- [21:17] Warning: Don’t rush features
- [23:02] Considerations for BFCM redesign
- [23:38] Optimization vs redesign
- [26:14] Sponsor: Klaviyo klaviyo.com/honest
- [26:44] Setting your priorities when migrating online
- [28:22] The “vanilla instance” of Shopify
- [29:16] When to reach out for help
- [30:47] The life cycle of the Ecommerce business
- [32:36] Finding your product-market fit
- [33:35] Why Ross chose Ecommerce over email marketing
- [35:41] Where to find Ross
- Ross’s website: allchorn.com
- Ross’ LinkedIn page: linkedin.com/in/webdesignconsultant
- ShopCreatify’s Twitter: @ShopCreatify
- ShopCreatify’s LinkedIn: sg.linkedin.com/company/shopcreatify
- ShopCreatify’s Facebook: facebook.com/ShopCreatify
- ShopCreatify’s Instagram: @ShopCreatify
- ShopCreatify’s website: shopcreatify.com
- Visit gorgias.grsm.io/honest to get your 2nd month with Gorgias free!
- Visit klaviyo.com/honest to schedule a demo!
- Visit postscript.io/install for a free 30-day trial!
- To get updates on our new episodes and exclusive deals from our partners, text HONESTVIP to 72599 and join our VIP texting list!
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Prioritization, I would say, is something that people should be looking at right now. They should be looking at the things that they want to be doing before the gifting season.
Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, where we're dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners.
I'm your host Chase Clymer, and I believe running an online business does not have to be complicated or a guessing game.
If you're struggling with scaling your sales, Electric Eye is here to help. To apply to work with us visit electriceye.io/connect to learn more. Now let's get on with the show.
All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. My name is Chase.
And today, I'm welcoming to the show another amazing agency owner from across the pond. technically. We'll get to that in a second. But anyways, Ross, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?
Hey, Chase. Good. Yourself? Thanks for having me.
Doing fantastic. The coffee hasn't kicked in yet so hopefully, it'll get me here in a second. So Ross is joining us. He's the founder of ShopCreatify. They're 5 years old now. And they are a proudly distributed Shopify Expert agency with an equally distributed client base.
So they are working with team members all over the world, and with businesses all over the world. So today, we're going to actually focus a bit about working with an agency and how to get the best out of it.
But before we dive in there, Ross, you want to give me a quick background on what led you here and how you ended up running your own shop?
Yeah. Sure. Sure, no problem. As you said, correctly, a 5-year-old business ShopCreatify.
My career spans back 20 something years now, the last 10 of which have been specifically Ecommerce, and the last 5 of which have been specifically Shopify and its related ecosystem, technology partners, and so on.
As I say, I've been working in Ecommerce for the last 10 years. But just as prior to founding ShopCreatify, I actually made an attempt at being a merchant quite successfully, but also realized that there was a better fit for myself and my skill set to actually service merchants, and [the] sense of creating stores, and making them better.
We were actually selling paracord bracelets, of all things. Having them manufactured, and bringing them into the country, and selling them.
But I set up a store for somebody in Australia, selling carbon fiber bicycle components, and that was the beginning of something that has now become this little agency which I'm quite proud of.
We've grown to 10 people now. We don't intend to be big, but I'm happy with the size of our ads and maybe a few more people and then the coming years will be good. But we're very happy with where we are and it's all good so far.
Gotcha. So I got a few questions there because it's so funny, just the parallels between our agency and yours. So the first being, getting started. It almost seems like it was an accident. A happy accident. Would you agree?
Oh, I don't know if I would entirely agree with that. I think there was a… There's an element of serendipity, if that's the right word to use. But someone gave me advice a good few years ago to... If you want to create a tech agency, choose a core piece of software to build that business around.
That was an option of actually having an email marketing focused agency, but then Ecommerce was a stronger desire for me because there's a lot more tangible value in the sales figures going up or better than the viewership figures of your emails. So [I] went that route instead.
So yeah, I would say there was a lot of intent. But definitely, there's a lot of luck involved in these types of things and a lot of things that just fall into place. I think that was unintentional.
Yeah. I can agree wholeheartedly there. And especially just with the whole hitching your cart to the Shopify horse.
I didn't expect Shopify to do what it did in the last 5 years, when we made the choice to focus on Shopify over at Electric Eye. It was only because we liked the people, and it just tended to work better.
We didn't think it would ever just grow like it did and just become this monolith in Ecommerce. We just thought it was another competitor in the ecosystem. It was there.
Yeah. There's a term that's used quite often in the space, “Tech Agnosticism”, and I've got a lot of respect for companies that are agnostic to what technology is used.
And I would say that I've actually retained a lot of that in the sense that if somebody were to come to us, --and I'm sure you guys have the same-- [and] their needs are not well suited to Shopify,..
...then don't use Shopify. Then rather go and either do the bespoke thing or use the other platform that is more suited to that thing. So we [are] definitely 100% Shopify focused, as, I think, you guys are. But by the same token, we're not going to take the projects that don't suit the platform. You have to have best agreed.
Yeah. I think that, you gotta be coming from a place of service. And I don't want to do anyone a disservice by selling them something that isn't going to solve their problem.
Oftentimes, people are trying to put a square peg into a round hole, like trying to get Shopify to solve something for them that it isn't going to solve.
And most of the time I try to educate them on what a better solution might be and then hopefully, I have someone in my network to refer them off to. But yeah, these days, it's strictly... We've got a very core customer that we like to serve over there.
Yeah, the shopping list of apps. I'm sure you've got those inquiries where it's like, "Here's 20 apps that are going to make this amazing platform." But they're not all necessarily going to work together very well, so...
Oh, yeah. We can talk about app bloat for a whole entire episode, probably.
Let's be honest today. All of your customers are going to have questions.
What are you doing to manage all those questions? Do you have a help desk for your business?
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Alright. So let's dive into it here. Well, first of all, I do want to point this out. You're a fully remote agency, and you're working with businesses, and you've got employees all over the world. Where are you based? We haven't let the audience know.
(laughs) Yeah yeah. Across the pond. So I'm in Cape Town, South Africa. We have a few team members here also in South Africa, distributed between Johannesburg, Wilderness...
Our project manager is Wilderness. She basically lives on the edge of a forest. Vienna, Austria and Chicago is where our team resides.
And then our client base is more distributed between the US, the UK, and Australia at the moment. We've had some Canadian clients and we've had some European clients too, but that's currently where they all reside.
It's very interesting, managing time zones. But it's surprisingly more manageable than one would think. Where it can become a bit hairy is when you've got someone in Southeast Asia and someone in the US and then maybe someone in South Africa or dealing with a client service provider, and trying to coordinate meetings.
But, you know what, we've managed to make it work successfully. Some of the clients have been with us for almost --since the beginning-- 4 and a half years, some of our clients have been with us and they're very happy with how we've set things up.
So yeah, it's something that we're quite fortunate in this... I wouldn't say post-COVID, but since [the] lockdowns and social distancing , we're quite seasoned in the ways of working remotely and managing. And things that don't work when you're not able to be in the physical presence of others. Yeah, we're quite lucky there.
Yeah. That just... Yeah, that brings up something that I haven't thought about in a while. And it was, when we were first getting started as an agency, oftentimes people wanted to get together, they wanted to meet in person, they wanted someone local.
And as we've grown the business, there's been less and less of those types of requests. People are more focused on results.
They're like, "Can you get these results for me? What is your process? Let's do it." So if there [are] any younger consultants out there that are just getting into the game, trust me, once you start to make some results for people and you get the case studies out there, it gets less about where you are and more about what you can do.
Yeah. I've actually played quite a hardball on the meeting in person aspects. I've got no problem physically sitting down in someone's office or in a coffee shop, whatever the case is, but it's very seldom with the drive, and the carbon footprint, and all the other negatives that the time of commuting and so on.
A Zoom call, or a Google Meet call, or whatever the case is, you can do... You can probably do more. You're in a comfortable setting of your own office or your own home office or whatever the case is.
I am definitely set up like that now, and I think others can be and are actually now being forced to realize that actually, in some cases, [that is] a better way of being in a working context.
But yeah, I do understand the... What do you call it? The “water cooler conversations” that are lacking.
But there are ways and means of dealing with that too. They are digital. We're adopting Agile Scrum at the moment.
And, the way that stand-ups happen in an environment where everybody's in the same room and they've got a board up on the wall, a physical board with post it notes or whatever the case is.
We're actually taking some advice that these guys are realizing and how they're now forced to do the same quality work but without being in the physical presence of each other. So we're adopting a couple ideas.
We're contemplating doing asynchronous stand-ups with the guys, record a little Zoom video and send it in and then our PM will review those and see if there's any post stand-up discussions that need to be had.
And then she'll arrange for those people to have that chat. And it's pretty interesting to... There's a lot more.
There are more brains being applied to this problem now as well. So we're benefiting from that, but also losing a bit of our competitive advantage in terms of being so good at this remote thing, that so many others are now having to do so. But that's fine. If the world's a better place for it, then I'm all for it.
Yeah, I think so. I think it's definitely gonna help. So let's shift gears now with everything that's happened with the pandemic and then the aftermath now. There are a lot of businesses looking to either get into Ecommerce or now they are reallocating funds to invest in whatever they've got going to make it better.
And today, we're going to chat a bit about how projects can go well and how projects can go off the rails. And I think it's very timely. Especially right now, we are getting a lot of inbound because we are just over 3 months from the start of November.
And that's the start of the big selling season for Ecommerce so everyone starting to get the projects now. So with that being said, I guess how do we want to approach this? Do we want to walk through maybe an example project and or what are you... What do you have in mind?
Yeah. We could look at an example project. The one thing that I think comes down to the crux of what one needs to be doing now... And as you say, we're in the same boat where come September, you probably start to run a bit late if you're wanting to embark on a redesign or any significant build.
So, prioritization, I would say, is something that people should be looking at right now. They should be looking at the things that they want to be doing before the gifting season. I have no reason to think that the gifting season this year is going to be any more significantly different to how it has been.
I mean it is an anomalous year in the sense that we haven't had a pandemic in a hundred... In 103 years whatever it is. And they were... And there wasn't Black Friday back then nor the Internet. But what merchants need to be doing right now is looking at what they want to achieve by the gifting season, the BFCM weekend and beyond.
Because everybody, as you probably experience every year, also you get a massive influx around --I don't know-- October, a little bit before maybe, where they want...
They either want to go online, they want to redesign, they want to build a really cool feature or something that they've wanted to do since last Black Friday (laughs) and realize there's only a month or two left.
And pretty often that's too late. You don't have enough time to test. You stand a good chance of having some egg on [your] face which you don't really want. It's wise now...
We started marketing for Black Friday type work already a month or two ago and I think most of our peers, our common contacts have also... We all started reasonably recently because yeah, those things need to be underway already.
Our biggest project that we've got has already started. And design is most of the way done, build is about to kick off, and we're leaving in a good almost a month worth of testing. And by the end of October that thing will be pretty much 100% I can't say what it is. Yeah.
Yeah. That's fine.
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I agree with you. I believe agencies, consultants, freelancers, anybody in the space that has to deal with Black Friday and Cyber Monday and just the holiday selling season, their mind is thinking about Q3, the second Q2 hits.
If you have a project you want to launch before Black Friday, before Cyber Monday, the thing you need to consider is , you don't want to launch it on Black Friday. That is a giant no-no.
You want to get launched a couple weeks before for a bunch of reasons. The more important ones being with any sort of creative work like this, any sort of custom features or whatever, if you're doing a bigger redesign or implementing some feature, there's going to be something that just gets overlooked in QA. It's the nature of this business.
And you don't want that bug to be happening on Black Friday. You want it to launch a couple weeks before so you can catch it, fix it, and then you're seamless on Black Friday, when you're probably dumping a lot of money into sales and driving up traffic.
And then another thing is, anytime we do a big redesign, or a big feature thing, your customers need to like get familiar with it a bit. There's always... Whenever you launch a big redesign, there's always a dip in conversions and then it comes back up.
And hopefully if you did your job right, it goes to a place above where it was. But yeah, you gotta keep those 2 things in mind.
So what we've been saying is we want to get things live by November 1. And if we can't get what you want live by November 1, we're pulling stuff out of scope and we're going to do it after the holiday season...
...which I think might pivot us into the next part of the conversation. Setting expectations about what you can do.
Yeah, no. Definitely. Just to continue what you're saying there in terms of November the first, being the latest that you want to go live. And then if that's not the case, which it often is...
And historically, going back now... And it's not... I'm not saying that ShopCreatify has dropped the ball. Maybe we have in some areas, but that's just part of being human.
But more often than not, the merchant will not realize the amount of time required to do that photography, to write that copy, to load the products, to do the things that they need to do. And then probably, more than half of the ambitious projects in the build up to Black Friday don't happen.
So setting expectations on both sides is incredibly important. We err on the side of caution generally, in the sense that we will always try and be as covered as we can, be in the sense that we will give our best effort but it also relies on you. So it's a collaborative effort with a merchant where...
Yeah, absolutely. We say this in kick-off calls. It's a collaborative process. Faster responses lead to faster delivery and delays in responses lead to delays in delivery. And it's that simple.
If you are taking an extra day to reply to every email, there's dozens of emails that are going on here, and the work is going to stop, and you are effectively... You just delayed your project a dozen days... A dozen working days.
Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. In terms of, again, with the expectation side of things... And you mentioned culling features or reducing the scope or cases, that is always a valid way of seeing something go live.
And when I was thinking about this discussion beforehand, I wanted to mention the concept of prioritization so that you know... You have your MVP, let's call it, where if those bells and whistles that you want to add before Black Friday don't make it into production, then they don't go live. The merchant must still feel the value of that thing having gone live.
We had an incident last year where we built a pretty cool feature for a store. And it's from a client side. Unfortunately, there were massive delays. I think they had manufacturing issues or something but they just couldn't give enough attention to it.
But there was so much that that had been put into it. I think we went live a day or two before Black Friday. And we realized that there was a massive flaw that potentially allowed the customer to be able to double dip the discounts.
And obviously, there's lots of discounts being slung around on that time of year. So we had to make some... Put out a huge fire. But with that said, that feature constituted 21% of their sales over that period. So it still worked.
So yeah, the elements of the system that you're building would definitely add value to it. If there is still value to be derived from the parts that do make it into production, don't do those, if that makes sense. That's probably the big takeaway that I'd give to that.
But then also being upfront about that in the beginning. Upfront from an agency owner or service provider to a merchant. But also from a merchant to understand the fact that there are things in the body of work that are...
The sum of all the parts is going to be X value, and then [if] you remove bits, it's going to be a bit less value, but it's still going to be better than nothing. It's still going to be greater than zero.
Yeah. I would say, [what] we tend to see is people want to do redesigns a couple months before Black Friday, Cyber Monday and potentially add in some features with the goal of raising the cart value, or something like that. And with those types of feature requests, sometimes it's like you make...
Obviously, you're gonna run to the statement of work, and these are all the things that are the good ideas. But then you're gonna prioritize them like, "These ones are absolutely getting done.
This is where we're gonna put our energy first." And then down the line, as you get closer, if things start getting delayed, if stuff comes up during build outs that add some scope to the project, you'd have to start making tough choices.
And unfortunately, you know that choice isn't like, "Get it done." It's sometimes impossible to get it done so you have to really understand like, "Okay, how can we get this thing across the finish line with enough time to make sure that it's not going to be a detriment to our business?"
Because we're not talking about going to live with a half-built house here. If you go live with an untested feature, or, you're trying to rush a bigger project, it could be devastating to a business.
If things aren't truly like QA'd and looked at, you could accidentally go live with something that can just destroy your conversion rate, or make it impossible for people to check out on certain platforms or certain like devices.
So I guess it's just a warning I want to put out there to people. Don't rush production on core features, core designs with your partners, whoever you're using. You're gonna have a bad time.
Yeah. There's one thing that I want to add to that. If you're... I suppose there's 2 parts to this, possibly even more than 2. But if you're not currently trading online and you've got, let's say, 2 months before Black Friday, make an attempt to be online by Black Friday because you're not currently doing it. So that's a case of something being better than zero.
If you have an existing store and it's doing okay doing quite well, I wouldn't attempt to redesign that 2 months before Black Friday.
Rather focus on optimizing what you've got. Your customers know it's there. Even if it's pretty bad, I would struggle to justify taking on a redesign project 2 months before Black Friday. Rather focus on optimization, making sure that your... Whatever the flaws on their existing thing are fixed even if they feel like band-aids being applied.
And then even... What we do is we do a “code freeze” generally in November, when we're not deploying anything. We actually start working on the things that are going to be launched in December, January already in November, because we're not going to launch anything serious in November.
So we actually move... We can move our focus to building things that don't need that much input from the merchant because they actually need to focus on getting ready to ship and handle that volume of orders that are coming in and so on.
So it's quite nice to be in a position to be working on the December, January, February launch type stuff already in November, because you've done everything that you need to do in preparation for Black Friday.
Yes, there's going to be little things that need to be tweaked and changed, and so on and so forth. But if you've got a store that's doing any form of decent revenue, don't go and... We're doing a big redesign at the moment for a merchant that is both in the US and the UK.
And we're really going to town in terms of making sure because if we don't get it right, collectively, the merchant and us, it's massively detrimental. If we don't get the SEO and all the redirects and things like that right, there will be a big dip.
But by the same token, once that has gone through and has had time to teve, that merchant is going to be in a much better position. It's not always just about revenue.
They're going to be lined up for the Black Friday season with fewer support requests, because we're addressing a lot of consumer issues which become the merchants' issues like fielding far more support inquiries than they need to.
So it's not always about just the... Obviously, the sales should uptick as well, but it's not always about just the revenue. It's going to be significantly better for conversions and their small support team is going to be a lot happier, I think (laughs).
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Yeah. You mentioned something there at the beginning about if you are a young merchant and you're just... It's your first attempt at getting online before Black Friday 2 months out, that's a little quick but hey, you can probably do it.
You can try [to] do it yourself with a premium theme and [a] "get it done" attitude. Because here's what it is, that zero to one getting online, you're gonna realize things within your business outside of the Ecommerce platform that you need to figure out first, before you're even gonna crush it online.
But with that being said, all you should be worried about is getting your store turned on, and getting your products on there, and having the availability to actually buy your products online. That should be your only goal with your first build of your site.
All these features you hear about automations, pop-ups, all the cool stuff that you see on these massive websites, I would ignore that at first because those aren't going to make or break your business.
What's going to make or break your business is getting online, having the availability to buy these products and then marketing those products through the avenues that you have already exists for your business.
So instead of stacking up this junk feature list requests like, "Oh, I need to have loyalty. And I need to have subscriptions for this one product. And I need to have X, Y and Z on the first version of your website."
You should just take all that energy and effort and focus that into marketing from the get go. Once you get it live, you need to get people there and get them to know it exists.
Yeah, the one thing that I would disclaim about that statement of mine about 2 months to go and you don't have anything, it depends on who you are and what you're selling. That would be what I call a vanilla instance of Shopify.
You'd be taking a premium theme or a free theme and using it pretty close to default. As you say, you wouldn't be implementing loyalty programs or any of those fancy things. You would be getting an Ecommerce store set up that allows people to buy your product.
That's about it. And you could... You can make it on brand, depending on how much of a slave driver you are, you could get it done quite polished. But we wouldn't take on a 2 months build, pre-Black Friday. It would be... It would...
...put too much strain on my guys. (laughs)
Most agencies that are producing results in this space are probably not taking on any new clients within two months of Black Friday period. They are probably fully booked up.
And it goes back to... You need to be having these conversations in the queue to the end.. Starting Q3, you need to be making these connections with these providers.
If you have ongoing issues with your store or there are questions you have about your user experience, if you don't have a trusted advisor or agency/partner that you're using, it's time to get out there and meet some people.
Obviously, if you're a little bit younger, you're probably going to be dealing with more freelancers and independent consultants. And not younger in the sense of age, which is younger in a sense of your business journey.
But once you've got some initial traction, you got product-market fit. I would argue [if] you're over the hump and your sales are well above a quarter million... Sorry. Yeah, well above a quarter million a year, you probably got some initial traction then.
Between there and $10 million, you probably don't need to hire anyone in-house. And that's when you should probably be using partners such as ShopCreatify or Electric Eye. But then, after the 10 million point, it starts to make sense to start bringing some of these resources in-house. But that's a whole other conversation, I guess.
Yeah. I think that there's something that you mentioned now, that you touched on. I think I've heard you or I've seen you mention it previously. It's the life cycle of the Ecommerce business with a merchant.
I don't know if you've got a defined layout of the life cycle. I mean, I've made an attempt at it and distributed amongst our team because we do a lot of conversion optimization work. And there is a certain...
There are certain criteria before conversion optimization makes sense. And what we've done is we've broken it down into the birth phase, the growth phase, then the conversion optimization phase, and then the ongoing testing and refining and so on.
I like to call that last phase "squeezing blood from a stone". (laughs)
(laughs) Yeah, getting the last bit out. Yeah.
But sometimes merchants can --in the growth phase-- be conversion optimization ready, but usually they are still finding their feet and growing the traffic. And once the traffic is there, and the sales are there, they can look at the conversion rate, they can look at the traffic, they can draw meaningful information from heat maps and things like that.
But before you can do that, you need to actually lay your foundation, and get the traffic, and then start figuring out what you're doing wrong, because you'll definitely be doing something wrong.
Yeah. And when you're any younger than that in your business, your traffic isn't there. You can't even get statistically accurate numbers that even matter for what you got going on there. To answer your question, no. I don't have..., I don't have the business life cycle concept laid out yet, I should probably spend some time on it and input my thoughts to paper but...
I'll happily share that with you.
Yeah. I would say though, the first phase, this is where I technically truly believe as an Ecommerce startup, it's your first go round.
It's not like you've built an Ecommerce business before because I feel like if you built and sold an Ecommerce business before and then you're doing it again, you are already so far ahead of anyone else who's starting another Ecommerce business. So like I'd say this is probably the first go around in Ecom. And that focus…
I'd say the true notion of how they've got out of that first stage into the second stage is when they've found a product-market fit.
And I would probably define that in Ecom as they've gotten an organic sales element to their business, and their product is moving, and people like it. I feel like once you unlock that, I think you're moving into the next stage of things.
And I would say, without a doubt, there is no agency in the world that can help you with that stage. No one will help you find product-market fit.
Yeah. What we call it internally is the secret sauce.
Once the merchant has realized what the secret sauce is for their business, because that can... It will differ between each Ecommerce store because... Unless you are selling exactly the same thing which is very unlikely. I don't think any of our clients... Well, there's something that I always say is that all ecommerce stores are so unique. Even if you're selling the same thing, you're selling it at a different price, you're selling it to different people, you're using different channels, you're shipping it differently and pricing the shipping differently.
It's such a... It's almost like the DNA of a business. And once that secret sauce... We've dealt with the merchants that --I wouldn't say struggling-- but you could definitely tell that they were quite far from profitable now. Or sitting with 7 stores around the world where they hit seasonal. It's very much a summer product.
And whenever the seasons change, they just shift all their efforts to the (laughs) to the summer market, and they're absolutely coining it right now. And so the secret sauce that our clients have found, it's actually a... It's a beautiful moment to see them go from trying to figure things out, their sales are okay, and then all of a sudden, you'll just see the spike (laughs).
You do get the gradual growth of some stores, but then sometimes... I don't know, sometimes that secret sauce is an investor that's just giving them all this ad spend, but it's quite an inspiring thing.
That's actually one of the things that I enjoy the most about this. And coming back to the beginning where I mentioned, I could have been doing email marketing, but I chose Ecommerce.
I don't think I would have got as much of a rush out of seeing the "Wow, they had like a really high open rate on that email." versus "Oh well, they did 10 million this month." (laughs) It's a slightly different feeling.
Absolutely. Ross. I'm gonna have to have you back on the show. We have questions here that we didn't even get to. It's really fun talking to someone that just sees the same things that we see day-in and day-out.
I like having agency owners on here. It's been a while since I've had one. But if people enjoy what you've had to share today, where can they reach out to you? Where can they find you online?
So ShopCreatify.com We're also on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. My little marketing team handles most of that. But yeah, I think if you search ShopCreatify --thankfully, that's a pretty unique name-- we'll come up on Google when you search for us. ShopCreatify.
Absolutely, we'll make sure to link to that in the show notes. Ross, thank you so much for coming on today.
Wicked. Thanks, guys.
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