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Ep. 101 - Top 3 Easy Wins for Your SEO with Ryan Pryor

Ryan Pryor has been in digital marketing, specializing in search engines, since 2007. He's built three search teams serving a wide variety of businesses, both ecommerce and lead gen. 

Last year Ryan co-founded Trigger, a marketing group fully focused on growing Ecommerce brands, but also runs a personal Shopify store selling niche musical instruments. 

In This Conversation We Discuss: 

  • [00:00] Intro
  • [00:57] How Ryan ended up in Ecom
  • [02:07] From lead gen to Ecom
  • [03:01] Attribution and analytics in Ecom
  • [04:07] Ecom still has lead gen qualities
  • [05:13] Sponsor: Postscript postscript.io/install
  • [05:45] Demonstrating the value of SEO
  • [07:19] Top 3 things for your SEO strategy
  • [10:20] Making content for the sake of content
  • [11:21] Sponsor: Klaviyo klaviyo.com/honest
  • [12:00] Features vs benefits in your copy
  • [13:23] Dealing with keywords
  • [15:38] 3 page elements to focus on
  • [20:04] Sponsor: Gorgias gorgias.grsm.io/honest
  • [22:15] Can the page title and title tag be the same?
  • [23:50] How to change page details in bulk
  • [25:24] Approaching the header details
  • [28:16] Chase simplifying the concept
  • [30:12] The tactical next step after the basics
  • [35:14] Where to find Ryan

Resources:

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 Transcript:

Ryan Pryor  

The SEO side, especially, is like making these small investments into your community and then to your website. That will generate long-term results for you

Chase Clymer  

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, where we're dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. 

I'm your host Chase Clymer, and I believe running an online business does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

If you're struggling with scaling your sales, Electric Eye is here to help. To apply to work with us visit electriceye.io/connect to learn more. Now let's get on with the show.

All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. My name is Chase Clymer coming to you from Columbus, Ohio. 

And down in Nashville, Tennessee, I'm welcoming Ryan, the Co-founder and Head of Search at Trigger. Ryan, welcome to the show.

Ryan Pryor  

Thank you so much, Chase. It's exciting to be here, man.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. I'm excited to get to dive in here. You had a very tactical approach to how you wanted to do this. 

But before we get into any of that stuff, let's just talk about your history. What excites you about Ecommerce and how you ended up here?

Ryan Pryor  

Sure. Yeah. Great question. I've been in the search engine world for about 13 years now. I got started on more in the lead generation side of things with car dealers and hospitals and all that stuff. 

So I spent a lot of time on the lead gen world, which was fun. But after exiting my last company, which was working with hospitals and B2B hospitals, which was --I'll just go ahead and say it-- boring. 

I decided, "Hey, I want to do Ecom. I want to work with companies that are selling fun things to people who say, 'This is something that will add value to my life, I'll give you my money for it.'" 

So I get to now do that all the time. I worked with a couple ladies in Trigger, Christina Rado and Laine Hoke, who covered the non-search side of things. 

They do Instagram, Amazon, email, that stuff, so we can bring a full Ecom package to marketing any of our clients products.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. So that's fantastic. I do agree that lead gen is just a whole other beast, but a lot of the, I guess maybe, the strategies... 

It's like, once you understand how lead generation or prospecting works, it's like, making it work for whatever your goal is. Am I saying things that make sense?

Ryan Pryor  

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I would agree wholeheartedly [that] making the transition from lead gen to Ecom was no big deal. 

It's just more about the speed at which the data can move, especially since it's B2C that we're dealing with, as opposed to hospitals where you're delivering leads on knee surgeries or something like that. 

The datasets are too small and you're handing off a week to someone who's sitting at a cubicle and doesn't know how to speak to a patient. So in this case, we now get to... 

Through Google Analytics and Shopify as an interface and stuff like that, we get to see the result of our work far more rapidly. And that's so much more rewarding.

Chase Clymer   

Yeah, that was also one of the things that was scary to me as I was getting into Ecom. But then once I realized, "Wait, everything has a value." And Shopify makes it so [that] I can't screw anything up on the payment side. 

[I was] like "This is awesome. Let's dive all in." Because on the lead gen side of things, way back when, you're based upon a bunch of assumptions. 

You're like, "We're assuming together, agreeing that this is worth X amount of dollars to you, if it happens. And then you're going back up the funnel." It's a lot more work. Being on Ecom is great, because you can just "be lazy." It's like "It's worth this because robots say so."

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, that's true. I really love the idea that you can now calculate the average order value, the revenue... It's so much cleaner. Everybody's so much happier, right?

Chase Clymer   

Yeah, it's sometimes the funniest thing is like, you know, we're going down a rabbit hole here about lead gen, which no one cares about. 

But I do want to say this. I remember talking to some clients way back then. And I would walk them through the math of this is what your cost of acquisition could be. And they be like, "I can't afford that." And [I'd] be like, "I just wasted so much time." 

Ryan Pryor  

Yep. 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah, it's just...

Ryan Pryor  

Yup.

Chase Clymer  

 ...fun now to just be like, "Hey, here are the numbers from a spreadsheet. Let's go."

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. I don't think it's outside the bounds of someone who's running Ecom to be thinking about this of course, though, because that... One client we've worked with for a while now, they do... 

They're obviously an Ecommerce business, but they actually have a certain amount of lead gen quality to them because their products are so high caliber, and their services so white glove that a lot of times people will call them and look for validation over the phone. 

And sometimes you can transact over the phone, not through the website. So there can be a certain "Contact Us"mentality to an Ecom business that is important to keep in mind because at that point. 

It is almost more of a lead gen mechanism than it is a pure, hard and fast "dollars in-dollars" out scenario.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. I would equate lead generation to your prospecting or your top of the funnel strategies in the Ecommerce funnel.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

I think that they're...

Ryan Pryor  

 Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

...pretty much the same thing. People are looking for answers, but they're not there yet. So depends on how good you are at educating them and explaining the value behind your offer and whether or not you're gonna win that business.

Ryan Pryor  

True.

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Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, it's great. You said that because we can talk about explaining the value now. Because that's really what SEO comes down to. It's explaining things and getting them in front of people.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. I think any sort of investment that anyone's going to make in their business is all about like, "What's the ROI I'm gonna see?" 

Or like, "What's the value this is gonna bring to my business?" So let's talk about investing in SEO and why that's valuable?

Ryan Pryor 

Sure. Well, one thing that we like to think about here, Trigger is  more on the organic side. And when I say organic, I don't mean just SEO. We think of social [media] from the organic perspective. 

We think of email as kind of an organic mechanism. So I think for the big picture of a marketing strategy to the Shopify businesses out there, they have to be thinking about organic channels in order to think about the long term of their business. 

Because as with every paid channel, if you turn it off, all your traffic goes away. Sometimes that's helpful. 

Chase Clymer 

Mm-hmm. 

Ryan Pryor  

But ultimately, you're going to get... If you were to aggregate your ROAS or you're straight up ROI... If you've got organic channels to bolster the paid ones and you're obviously going to have a better return on investment in aggregate, of course. 

So we'd like to think about things from that organic perspective. Because the other fun thing is that if you've gotten your organic channels figured out, a lot of times your paid channels will fall in line and have better conversion rates and that kind of thing. 

So that's how we think about the organic side of things. The SEO side, especially, is making these small investments into your community and into your website that will generate long term results for you. 

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. So if we're going down this rabbit hole, I've got, say, a small business. We got some initial wins out there. We're selling stuff organically. It's not just my friends and family anymore. We got a little bit of traction. 

Ryan Pryor  

Sure. 

Chase Clymer  

Where should I... For the more "DIY-er" out there, where should I start to spend some energy? Because every week, there's a new article or podcast or something published. And this is going to be one of them that's like, "Here's what you should do."

Ryan Pryor  

Right.

Chase Clymer  

SoI guess like what would be your one key thing or the top 3 things that someone should be doing to own their SEO presence with an Ecommerce business for that first step of getting things started for a business that's... You're like "Alright, I get this. This is a real business now. Let's start to focus on some organic stuff."

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. Sure. So there's 3 things I want to get to that, that every page on a website should have, that these business owners can... The DIY folks can go ahead and tackle starting today. 

And those 3 things are the title tags, meta descriptions, and the header elements on the pages. And we'll break that down here a little bit, because I want to make sure everything we do is super, super practical for people. 

In fact, we've got a template and a blog and stuff like that, that we can probably, I would assume, put in the show notes that will...

Chase Clymer  

Yep.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. So I want to make that available to people. But I think the first 2 things we really need to tackle... Because as I was thinking about today, I realized we always have to start [from the] bigger picture. And the first thing is that, just like social media or email, you have to have content. 

Search engines need content to have a reason to link to you, for people to want to find you. And it's not just about your product. So if the businesses out there that are listening have websites that are purely product, you're expecting someone to hit your website and just buy your thing. 

Then I would say, I would suggest maybe the first thing to do is think about alternate content threads or ideas or values that you can offer to the people coming to your site that will give them a reason to engage with and absorb your brand.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a blog, it doesn't necessarily have to be pages and pages worth of explainers or something like that. But having something else on the website is not only helpful for the individual who's trying to make a decision about your product versus maybe a competitor or something. 

But it's also pretty crucial from a search engine perspective that you have that extra bit of context and more pages on the site to link with and to put keywords on. So that's [the] first thing: You got to have the content. If you don't, stop and think through that. 

And so that could be with FAQ's, that could be with any number of the blog idea thing... How would you use the product? Where would you use the product? Answering questions is really the biggest piece of search engines.

Because if you think about Google, it's a "What is?" engine. It's really just people asking questions. So once you've got your content ideas in place and... Feel free to jump in if there's questions I'm bringing up because I can just talk talk talk. The keywords are the next thing. And I know that keyword...

Chase Clymer  

Well I do want to go back to content real quick here just to... 

Ryan Pryor  

Great! Yeah yeah yeah.

Chase Clymer  

...just to shut down some lazy people. If I'm gonna be honest, you guys got to hear this. So here's an example for you. Ryan, tell me what I'm doing wrong here. 

I've started a business. I'm white labeling some products for my manufacturer and I'm just dumping in all the pictures and the copy that they provide to me. Am I going to see any good results with that?

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, I would think not. That's where I see a lot of businesses rely on the paid side of things. And even the paid side at that point --you're running your Facebook Ads and your Google Ads-- is likely to fall flat because you haven't invested in the extra reasons for giving the answers. 

Giving context to people as to why these products that came straight from the manufacturer, images that you just pulled straight off are of meaning and validation. Why you should give the money to this particular business. You have to have all of that there. 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah.

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Chase Clymer  

I also think that manufacturers, when they are writing copy for their products, they're talking about features and they're not talking about benefits. really 

Ryan Pryor  

True.

Chase Clymer  

And when you're when you're trying to copywrite for your market, you just need to be talking about benefits, really.

Ryan Pryor  

Oh yeah.

Chase Clymer  

So there's like a completely different goal. A manufacturer's product description is straight up to explain what you're buying from them. And the description of your product you need to have for your customer needs to explain what it's going to solve for them.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, especially since what I've seen a lot is I've noticed that Shopify platform businesses are oftentimes more lifestyle driven, more social driven types of products. And so you really have to be able to tell that story like the narrative of why this product is valuable in this person's lifestyle. 

So it's less about, does it have a Phillips head versus a flathead screw? It's more like, how does this thing fit into your overall toolkit of life. 

So if you don't have those content threads, whether that's like a recipe catalog if you're selling chinaware or something like that, or outdoor living if you're selling camping chairs, or just FAQ's... 

Like I said before FAQ's can be a really great way of just generating some good content. If you don't have that, then you really have to  start there. And then it gets into the keywords piece of things. So [is it] cool for me to dive in that? 

Chase Clymer  

Let's go!

Ryan Pryor  

Alright, so this is a thing that, to your point, some of the folks out there --whether they're lazy or they're just intimidated-- can get stopped dead in your tracks when it comes to keywords. If you're not running a paid search account, which would have meant that you're already engaging with the concept of keywords. 

And keywords are sort of like this mystical thing to you. The first thing I would recommend to people is just think about your product and how someone would search for it.  

If you're selling handmade leather goods, look up things on Google related to that look up "handmade leather goods", look up "local maker" types of searches and see if the businesses that show up in Google are competitors to you or it seemed like they would be competitors to you. 

They may be big box stores or that kind of thing, but at least you're in the right ballpark. And you'll know when you see who else is on that search results page. 

If you are in a situation that's a little bit more fringe where you say, "I don't think anybody knows about my product because it's never existed before." 

Then SEO is a great thing for you to invest in so that you have that base covered. But it may be that there aren't exactly specific keywords. 

I like to say too, the other place you can go if you want to get really nerdy is... Google Ads is a... They've got a keyword planner that you can just sign up for Google ads and get access to it. It'll give you your keyword data. 

Or I like to use Semrush a lot. And they've got a 7-day free trial. But if you know what your people would be searching for... Even if you've been in business for a while and you've got data coming off of Shopify, they'll suggest some keywords to you as well. 

So ones got those keyword ideas, then you have something to work with for the elements we were talking about earlier. 

And I do want to throw it out there too. If it's still like a conundrum... The keywords piece is a conundrum for folks, I would love for people to feel free to reach out to me. I can be reached at ryan@growwithtrigger.com. Two W's in there. 

Just give me a subject line of keyword research help put your business name and I'll happily look up what I can and send something back. No big deal. Love doing that for people. 

So I don't want the keywords to block anyone from doing the next layer of things here. The 3 things that we talked about.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. I think the keyword element of it is probably the most intimidating, to be honest. Personally, I would say I'm a novice search engine optimization-er. Is that the term? 

But yeah, that's probably where I  fall off. And then I like to come back once that part of it's done. Like "Cool, I can help out with writing headers and subject lines. That's fun." So let's get into that, I guess. Once you have got some keywords to play with. 

And you got some content, which helps you produce the extra pages --which I'm sure you're gonna highlight why that's important here in a second-- what are we doing now?

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, so now we're into the nitty gritty of things that... The title that we were going for today, the 3 easy wins for SEO. The things that a business owner, the DIY-er could do starting today. And that is the 3 page elements. Every page has these 3 things. It's the title tag, the meta description, and the header tags that are on the page. 

And I went through just so I can make sure that I had the exact right terminology. So I'm going to be trying to reference the things like field names inside of Shopify. 

Because I think the problem with a lot of content management systems is that they won't always call the field that you're filling in information in the same field that you want it to be. 

So for example, every page inside of Shopify, whether that's a collections page, a product page, a blog page, or just the actual pages, they all have titles at the top. 

Like when you're building the page, it says title. And so it can be easy to confuse that title with the title tag. And that's just because they've labeled it "title". 

But what they need is a page title when you're looking inside the content management system, when you're looking inside Shopify. So I want to be really clear if I can get out of the gate here: That is the "page title". 

So if we're talking about handmade leather goods, if you're on the handmade leather goods page, and you've named it that, that is the page title inside of Shopify. It is not the title tag of that page. 

The title tag, which is the first one we're going to talk about, is the thing that you see when you're on Google results page is like if you type in whatever you're searching for the results that come back on those pages. 

The search engine results page is how we refer to it. The parts that are in blue, the big bold parts, that's the title tag of the page. And then the gray black writing that's underneath of them, that's the meta description, which is the second thing we're going to talk about. 

So essentially, we're referring here, the title tags and meta descriptions we're referring to are the headlines and the description copy of each individual page. 

And you get to craft that for every page on your website, in much the same way that you would craft ad copy for your Google ads, which is not the way that most people think about SEO. 

They think about it in terms of just putting keywords on the page. But we want to think about it from the perspective of what's the value proposition of this page. Therefore, [that's] what am I going to say in my title, tag, and meta description. 

So if you're looking at the actual editor window inside of Shopify, we want to scroll down to the bottom of that window and you'll see this section that says Search Engine Listing Preview, and you can click on Edit Website SEO. 

And when you do that, the first thing that's up is the... It says page title there. again, they've mislabeled things from my perspective. That's actually what comes up as the title tag on the page. That's what would show up in Google versus page title. And they've given you 70 characters to work with. 

That is where I would say you put the keyword and maybe even like a phrase that the keyword would live in. So like "handmade leather goods'' or "handmade leather wallets" or something like that might go into that page title. And there you go, you've got your title tag. It's covered. 

And then the next field below that, just skipping ahead to what we're gonna say is point number 2. And the things that people can do is the meta description. 

That same area of the page, it says description and doesn't say meta description. It says description and gives 320 characters a space for you to work with. 

And that is what I would refer to as the ad copy, if you will, of the page. I would suggest people just put in one or two sentences worth of information about the page. "We're selling really high quality, handmade leather wallets locally made in Austin, Texas." And "Shop Now." 

You always want to have a call-to-action there. Because again, this is the first thing that someone will see if they're on Google is that title tag and meta description.

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Ryan Pryor  

So those are the first 2 things that are what I would suggest everyone go through their website and add if not modify for every single page on the site. I know that can be daunting. 

Now that I've said that out loud, I realize some people might have 100 pages on their site to go through. So take it one chunk at a time. Like one product category or just one page a day if you have to. 

But make it intuitive and get through that. Because anecdotally. But also data-wise, I've seen this affects search rankings overnight. A lot of SEO folks out there will say, "Oh, you got to worry about your link portfolio. You've got to push, push, push on blogs." And all that stuff. And all that is true and can be helpful. 

But I have seen where making a title tag and meta description focus and include the keyword of the thing that you're trying to sell. I've seen that affect search rankings overnight or within a week. 

It blows my mind how pure and elemental and basic it is, and how a lot of times it can get overlooked. Which means most of the time, if you're in a competitive space, you might get one pull ahead just doing those t2 pieces right there. I realized I'm just talking away. (laughs)

Chase Clymer  

No. No. No. It's great. It's great. You're just... You're providing the listeners with content, and I get to sit here and drink this awesome soda. 

Ryan Pryor  

(laughs)

Chase Clymer  

So I do have a few things to bring up here. So you mentioned you know, you got the title tag at the top of the page on the SEO product page. It's also the same on your Shopify blog page. 

Now, people are like, "Well, why wouldn't I just like let it be the same thing?" And I just wanted to point out some use cases where that wouldn't make any sense. So for example, you've got your product. It's like the "West Side Widget." you know what I mean?

It doesn't explain anything about what that product is. So how would Google know what that product is? So that's fine to call it that internally, where your team knows what it is and like on the page, it can say that. 

But to Google, it should be like "The west side widget. This industrial tool solves this problem." That's a way better title tag for Google, because then Google knows what it is. 

And it's gonna show up in the right rankings, especially putting the proper keywords in there. So anytime you've got like a more branded product name, you absolutely need to do this stuff.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, that is... Man, I'm really glad you said that. Because I'm sitting over here in my... I'm probably prone towards the engineer-side of things. 

I'm thinking keywords, keywords, keywords. But you're absolutely right. Especially for the products that are differentiated based on their quality standards, right? 

Like...

Chase Clymer  

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Pryor  

...handmade types of things, the...

Chase Clymer  

Yep.

Ryan Pryor  

The 10x price difference between them and who might be considered a competitor,  those are going to be the things that are more likely to have sexy names and not be so immediately obvious. 

This is... The keyword... And you don't want to ruin your page look and feel with jamming in a keyword either. So yeah, way to point out that one. I appreciate that.

Chase Clymer  

No worries. And then I just want to talk about the people that have stores where they're selling a couple 100 SKUs or something. 

The easiest way to approach this is just go with the 80-20 rule. It's like "Where is 80% of your revenue coming from?" Obviously it's for your products, start there.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. Absolutely. And I have seen... I've not approached it in bulk before myself, but I have seen it where you could just download the whole product inventory, edit those fields, and then upload, of course.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah, you can do that. You can do that as an Excel spreadsheet. If you want it to be a lot easier. I honestly recommend... Here's a shout out to my boy Maris at Excelify. Just downloaded the whole thing from Excelify

You can even get it like a little bit more segmented down to make it easier on you. And you can just download it as a spreadsheet. 

Do that stuff in Excel and then just upload it back. So now you're not modifying one page at a time. You can do it like 10 or 20. Or if you're feeling a little crazy 100 at a time.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I actually walked into a music shop near my house here one day, and I found a guy behind the register doing that exact same work. It was a guitar shop. They had just tons and tons of guitar gear and he was filling out that information. 

I just looked over the register and I said, "Oh... Oh wow! Yeah, you've got your work cut out for you. you've got a massive spreadsheet to fill out there." So I didn't interview that guy's task. But I know it's a way you could tackle it unless you've got hundreds of SKUs for sure.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. But it needs to get done. It's...

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

It's one of the things that we always notice when we're looking at auditing websites. We're like, "Hey, here's some low hanging fruit. Just go do that."

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

It's going to actually help in the long run. So okay, we talked about the title tags here. We talked about the meta description, which comes underneath in the Google results. 

And same thing as all the other search engines. They all are based on Google. Let's talk about one that's a little more, I guess, a step further and talk about the header stuff. So how do wget into that?

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. Right. So the headers, that's actually even easier to see and wrap your head around. The headers are exactly what you think they are. When you look at a page, it's the big bold print. It's the name of your product. 

It's the sub header that says "product features'' or something like that. And you can edit that in the content window on any page. Most of the time, you're just filling in copy, you're doing bullet lists and stuff like that. 

But that upper left icon or button right underneath where it says "content" inside your editor window of any page, when you hit that drop down for formatting, you've got paragraph, heading one, heading two, heading three,heading four... Tight there are your headers. 

The way that Google looks at pages of your website is as if it was one of those documents from back in library days. They're looking for the punchline of what this page is about. And they're looking for those cues, from the title tag, the meta description, and the headers: H1, H2, H3... 

Quick caveat there, if at all possible, you only want to have one H1 on each page, sometimes the way that websites can get coded might include more than one each one. 

So if you recognize that avoid having an extra one, but you can put as many H2 as you want on the page. And H2 might be where you get into your category for FAQs. Or if you're writing blogs, the sub headers about those products that you're writing blogs about. 

Or about recipes if you need to put an ingredients list or something on there, you would probably make that ingredients lists, actual words that say ingredients that you might make that into an H2 or H3 so that you're giving your page more structure because again. Google's like a big library.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah, that's a great way to kind of point it out. 

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. I'm old enough to remember when there were card catalogs and green screen things at the library. 

And so if you are familiar with that, if you come from that train of thought or if you've ever had to do a Google Doc or Word doc formatting --where you have the option to do heading one, heading two-- all that is to serve the reader or the library in understanding what this page is about. 

And that's really all Google wants to know. "What is this page about?" And that's where the keywords come back in. It's like, Oh, I know what this page is about. It's about this keyword. And then when someone searches for it, I can connect that dot and I can put this document or this webpage in front of them.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. So to just riff on... We've been talking a lot about the hosts. Shopify does it. Aad I don't know, per se about many of the other ones, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and guess they all do it too. 

With the title tag at the top of the page that confuses you for the Google SEO result is usually what gets dropped in on to the product page as the title of that page. 

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

Quite often, that is the only H1 on the page. If it's a well built theme, it should be the only H1 on the page. 

So you're going to have to get a little bit more creative about putting your keywords in there. Or you can just let it be the name of the product. And then focus on the H2's as Ryan has just pointed out here.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. Yep, it's absolutely right. And I was actually running into that the other day with one of the projects we're working on where I said, "Oh, some of these product names, while absolutely appropriate for the user --like "strings for this niche instrument"-- when I look at the keywords, what I see people are searching for is actually "niche instrument strings". 

So in that particular instance, I could flip the wording around on the actual product name. And that gave me a different configuration of the keywords in the H1 as it appeared on the page. 

But you can't always do that. In which case, you have to default to figuring out how to squeeze those H2, those Heading 2 tags in there. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. Yeah. So let's recap for everybody. Just don't be lazy and write your title tags, your meta descriptions. And if you can jump in there and tackle the headers, I would say for a product unless you're writing some insanely long form sales page. 

You drop in a few H2 tags, your h1, and you can call it a day there. I don't know if my assumption there was correct, but that's my recommendation over the years.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, no. That's totally fair. Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Well, beyond that, is there anything that you think that people would want to tackle as that phase one "just getting your basics" in place?

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, absolutely. The first thing I would suggest, though, right beyond this... Because hopefully this has given everybody the context, they need to wrap their head around what comes out of all this. What their tactical next steps are. 

For me, personally, I like to do a little bit more planning around things. What I was referring to earlier, as the template that you can get from our show notes here today is a keyword, title, meta, header mapping thing... 

It's just a spreadsheet template that I'm going to make sure everybody can have access to. So they can sit down, they can think about their keywords. And then they can think about which pages they should go with. 

And then write the title and the meta description. And even think about the headers away from the editor window of Shopify so that you can look at everything, one big picture or one big 30,000 foot view about your product categories about your collections, about your products, so that you're not in the moment wondering, did I update this page? 

Which keywords did I use in that previous page? Have I written a blog about that thing? Did I write a blog about the other thing? Or did I already write 2 blogs about the first thing?  Whatever it is...

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. 

Ryan Pryor  

So I want to make sure we have that resource available. It's actually how we approach, being systematic about this, this particular aspect of SEO for customers. 

But then to answer your next layer question, what we've seen just a shocking amount of response on --in terms of the search engine-- is internal linking on the website, itself. And by internal linking, what I mean is... When you say... Pick an accessory, like a drill bit or something like that.

Chase Clymer  

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Pryor  

If you've got the drills themselves and you're on the drill page and you want to point out that people could purchase drill bits. Instead of saying "Buy drill bits here." And then make the word "here" the link that goes over to the drill bits page. 

Instead... Say, we have a variety of drill bits, and you make the word "drill bits'', the text that you link to. And that seems silly, in a lot of ways, because it's so simple. 

But what it actually does is gives Google the opportunity to say, "Oh! Oh, that page over there is not just another page of words. It's important for me to understand that that page is about drill bits and this link on this product page points me there. And now I know that." 

And if you do enough of that throughout the site, then you're giving Google a better understanding of which pages that are about which things and which pages have the priority of those products or of those content types. 

So I would say once you've mapped out and done the title tags, and meta descriptions, headers, and everything, you'll have a really good sense of the breadth of your website. So you might as well also be taking some steps to link different pages and different categories of the website to one another. 

One of the projects we're working on right now has a lot of education, like resources for how to learn how to play the specific instrument in mind. And so we want to always be thinking about, "Here's a video to explain how to play a song."

"And here's another video on a different page that talks about the chords one would need to be able to play that song." So you want to link those 2 pages back and forth. 

And in both cases, note that you can purchase strings or purchase products on those product pages. So you're always like making sure that Google sees the system, the web that is your website.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. And I think that, what we've talked about here is easily something you could tackle in a weekend. Honestly, even if you got a higher SKU count, you can knock out the title tags and all that junk for like the more popular pages, the ones that are actually making the business.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

Easily. I would say [you can complete it] on a Sunday afternoon, because that's when I did it. We just built a new website for our company for the agency, and I just sat down on an afternoon and just thought about it and just knocked them all out.

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah, exactly right. The elephant can only be eaten one bite at a time. But you could have a larger snack if you do one afternoon. So if I might, I'd like to plug a... 

We were talking earlier about content for... Where to get content. I think there's a tool that I've located down. This company called Answerbase, I recommend that your listeners consider them as a resource for how to generate more content for the website. 

If you've got a product that people ask questions about then making sure you have those answers available. It wins the day, right?

Chase Clymer  

Yeah.

Ryan Pryor  

You're differentiating yourself [and] your products. I have no vested interest in them other than I found out about and I was like, "Wow, this is really, really cool. I'm gonna put this everywhere I can now." 

So I just figured people might want to know about that. And it does present the opportunity for a little bit easier content generation, if that's a challenge for folks. 

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Yeah, we'll make sure to link to all that in the show notes. And again, if people.... They might have some questions about keywords or something a little bit more grander of a project, how did they get a hold of you? What do they do?

Ryan Pryor  

Yeah. Well, they can certainly find us at growwithtrigger.com. There's always a way to get a hold of us [through] phone number, contact form, etc. 

But I would love to hear from people directly and they can just reach me at ryan@growwithtrigger.com. Again, two W's in the "growwith." And I'd love to hear from people. 

Happy to answer questions of any kind, and learn what people are doing out there. I'm always fascinated by all the different types of products and in businesses that people have and what's winning the day for them. 

So if you've got questions or if they found something that was working great, I'd love to hear that, too. 

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Ryan, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

Ryan Pryor  

Sure. Thanks, Chase. I enjoyed it.

Chase Clymer  

I cannot thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their journey and knowledge with us today. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add to our businesses. Links and more information will be available in the show notes as well. 

If anything in this podcast resonated with you and your business, feel free to reach out and learn more at electriceye.io/connect. Also, make sure you subscribe and leave an amazing review. Thank you!