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Ep. 94 - Why Your Homepage is Wrong with Ilana Davis

Ilana Davis is a Shopify Superhero who works with e-commerce shops to remove friction from the buying process. She rescues websites creating effective websites that attract more visitors, provides better SEO, and increases conversion rates at a fraction of the cost of a full redesign. 

In This Conversation We Discuss:

  • [00:00] Intro
  • [01:00] Ilana’s origin story
  • [02:27] Structured Data for Ecommerce
  • [03:08] The biggest homepage misconception
  • [05:36] Sponsor: Postscript postscript.io/install
  • [06:06] Most common homepage mistakes
  • [08:24] Determine why people buy from you
  • [09:21] Easiest way to make more money
  • [09:45] Forgetting the customer’s perspective
  • [10:33] The importance of telling your story
  • [12:23] Sponsor: Gorgias gorgias.link/honest
  • [13:12] You don’t need a high SKU count
  • [13:59] The true purpose of your homepage
  • [14:49] Rethinking your navigation menu
  • [16:51] Carefully consider and compare your store
  • [17:38] The exception to Ilana’s homepage principle
  • [18:26] The “above the fold” misconception
  • [19:21] Sponsor: Klaviyo klaviyo.com
  • [19:50] Social feeds on the homepage
  • [21:10] Social feed replacement
  • [23:03] Determining if social feed replacement is working
  • [24:54] Bounce isn’t always caused by web design
  • [25:15] Marketing to the right people
  • [25:50] Conversion rates go down, but it’s fine
  • [26:00] What to expect with a consultant
  • [26:55] How Website Rescues works
  • [28:35] Where to find Website Rescues

Resources:

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Transcript:

Ilana Davis  

The point of the homepage is to get them in further to your site before making that sale.

Chase Clymer  

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, where we're dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. 

I'm your host Chase Clymer, and I believe running an online business does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

If you're struggling with scaling your sales, Electric Eye is here to help. To apply to work with us visit electriceye.io/connect to learn more. Now let's get on with the show.

Ilana Davis  

I'm good. How about yourself? 

Chase Clymer  

I'm doing fantastic, learning how to say people's names. 

Ilana Davis  

(laughs)

Chase Clymer  

This is gonna be a running joke in this podcast.

Ilana Davis  

(laughs) That's alright. 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah.

Ilana Davis  

We like to make fun of ourselves whenever we possibly can. So...

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. So you like to bill yourself as a Shopify superhero. With superheroes, they have origin stories. So what's yours?

Ilana Davis  

(laughs) I don't have any of those super fun super powers unless, [if] you consider myself as a triplet, as a superpower. But maybe? I don't know,

Chase Clymer  

I think that's a super power. That's a super mom, for sure.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. (laughs) Right. 4 kids, 3 of them all the same age. I can't even imagine. No, my background actually is in HR so I had worked within many startup companies for about 10+ years within HR. And then realize that that was not where I wanted to live, and ended up exploring my web design and development more. 

And so since then, I've been working with Ecommerce shops, both on the app support side for my husband, and then also myself, now focusing on pretty much salvaging websites.

And that's why I call myself a "superhero", because I am here to rescue your website, so that you don't have to go through a full redesign and spend a bunch of money on something that's not trusted.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah, that's a great product offering in the service industry. And we'll get more into what Website Rescues are the process behind them in a little bit. 

But I think we do a disservice if we don't give a quick shout out to your husband's app, because I do enjoy it.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. So my husband is Eric Davis, he runs Little Stream Software. And he's a maker of JSON-LD for SEO, I highly encourage that you check it out. 

It does structured data for your store. And it is one of those like magic things that just sort of happen in the background to help you boost your SEO.

Chase Clymer  

Yes. It's a great app. We've used it at the agency and a couple of stores. It's got my recommendation. 

So if you don't have SEO sorted yet for your store [and] you haven't had anyone look for it, this is like a quick win to get it done getting the structured data... 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

...into Google. Just Google Structured Data for Ecommerce, and then you're gonna be like, "I need this." And then... 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

....that's exactly what you do. 

Ilana Davis  

(laughs)

Chase Clymer  

So today, we're gonna focus on something that we haven't talked about on the show --so I'm super excited about this-- which is your Shopify homepage [where] people do a lot of stuff wrong. People stumble across doing things right. 

But I would say the homepage is probably one of the most unstructured pieces of the website for most Ecommerce brands, because they don't believe its job is like to get sales... I don't know. We can get really into it. So where would you like to start with this?

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. Why don't we talk a little bit about the mistakes that people make because you sort of touched on a little bit. So people look at their homepage as just a stopping point and oftentimes, it's to push sales. 

Oftentimes, they're depending on the customer just to know where they're supposed to go. And so a homepage is not just this sign on the front of your door. 

If you're a brick and mortar store, it's not the sign on your door that brings them in, the homepage is all of the information that tells us who you are, that makes them want to look further. And so oftentimes, people mistake it as just a stopping point. And it's not.

Chase Clymer  

I think my best educated guess will be people put effort where the money is and...

Ilana Davis  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

...especially with retargeting and best practices with advertising, most of the time ads are going to a specific landing page or a product page. 

So that's pretty much where people are putting the most attention, which is actually funny, because the first place people are probably visiting your website organically is the homepage. So it's counterintuitive, right?

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. And that's the thing. The 2 most common pages that people visit on your site is either going to be a product page, as you mentioned, or your homepage. And the product page would be... 

If someone actually linked to that page then it would be more of an organic piece like that. Or maybe it shows up on search, based on what you're looking for. 

But typically, it's ad related. But the homepage is when someone is organically finding you. And that is where people spend the majority of their time to make sure that they know who you are, before they even make that purchase. 

So they are going to look at the product page, but then they're going to go back to your homepage to figure out who the heck you are before they buy anything. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely.

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Chase Clymer  

So let's get into it. What are the 2 to 3 biggest mistakes that you see most Shopify store owners... And this isn't just Shopify. Honestly, this is Ecommerce in general. What are the mistakes that they're making on their homepage?

Ilana Davis  

Well, I think the first thing that comes to my mind that --and actually it drives me bananas-- is they push too hard on the sale. 

So what I mean by that is when you first land on a homepage, usually within seconds --and I mean like 2 seconds, if that-- you have a pop up in your face. And that is the equivalent of you walking into a brick and mortar store and the salesperson jumping into your face saying, "Hi, how can I help you? Do you want this? Here, buy this. Buy this right now. Come here, buy this." 

And it's like, "Oh my gosh. You're driving me crazy." And I remember being in a store many years ago, I won't name it. But literally within 30 minutes of me walking around the store, I had 10 different customer service reps come up to me and say, "How can I help? How can I help? How can I help?"

And there has to be that balance between the pop up in my face that says, "Hey, you want to sign up? Hey, buy this?" Whatever it is. And allowing people to learn who you are. So that goes into my second mistake of not enough information on your homepage. 

And when you land on someone's homepage, there should be key things such as who you are, and what you do, and why we should buy from you. The other piece of that is going to be your navigation menu and making it really, really simple for people to figure out what products you're actually selling and how to get to those pages. 

So there has to be good communication and clear direction that you're giving your customers on where you want them to go. Think of it like a map,  like a store map. And you have to say "I want you to follow this path in order to make a purchase." as opposed to "Buy. Buy. Buy." So those are probably the top 2 mistakes that I see.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. I can't agree with you more. People aren't using storytelling...

Ilana Davis  

Right.

Chase Clymer  

...in their copy on their home pages, which is like... Any marketing book, Marketing 101 will tell you storytelling is going to sell more than values and benefits.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. And oftentimes when I see that, when I talk with store owners, it's often that they don't fully understand why people buy from them or they don't understand what sets them apart. They think they know, but they don't really know. 

And there's a big difference between what you want to set yourself apart from other people and what people see you as. And so it's really important to understand how your customers see you, and what they look for when they're coming to your store.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. Don't be the store owner that is like "I know what they want. They're buying all this stuff from me." And then it's like, "Cool. When's the last time you did a customer survey?" Or you reached out and interviewed your customers? 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah... 

Chase Clymer  

Never? That's a complete lie to me. You don't know your customer. You don't know why they're buying from you. You just happen to have a product people want. You need to find out why.

Ilana Davis  

Exactly. You could accidentally find a goldmine. That doesn't mean you know how you found it. (laughs)

Chase Clymer  

Oh yeah. That's a great analogy. And then the second thing you brought up, I think, is the number 1, easiest way to make more money as an Ecommerce brand, especially if you've got more than one product on your store, is making your navigation make sense.

Ilana Davis  

Yes.

Chase Clymer  

It's so difficult to buy from people sometimes because they don't understand it from a customer's perspective. So this goes back to the first thing, interview your customers like it's... 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

For example... I'm not going to use this specific example but I've seen leads come in before and they'll have a widget. They're selling a product and they've got like 9 variations of the same product. 

But when I go to the page, it's like every product looks unique so I don't know if I actually need to go through all 9 of these products or each of them are the same, there's just something a bit different about them. 

And the way that you lay that information out to [yourself] makes a bunch of sense because you're so close to the product as the owner. You're like, "Yeah. These are the differences." Me as a general browser of the website, I'm like, "[Are these] 9 different products? Or is this 1 product with 9 different options." 

And the difference between those... A statement just like that, that simple, is the difference between me knowing "I want to buy that one product and just figure out what the option is." 

Or me having to research these 9 products and figure it out [and be like] "Because I don't want to do that. I'm a busy person. I've got a life. I'm not going to research it." You've just lost the sale.

Ilana Davis  

Well, exactly. And that's why I say... And you mentioned this before too, of telling your story. If I understand who you are, what you're selling, and why I should buy from you, then it's easier for me to make that decision. 

But if I have to think, if I had to figure out what it is that you're even trying to sell to me or like you said, 9 different products versus 1, and I'd have to pick a different color or whatever it is, you're making it too complicated. 

And the hard thing that many store owners do or don't do is that they don't actually look at their website from the customer standpoint. They are so close to it, as you mentioned, Aad it's really easy to get distracted by what you think it's supposed to do versus what it actually does. Think of it like a mosaic. 

When you look really closely, you just see a whole bunch of little pieces. But when you step back and you look at the bigger picture, there's an actual design that's in there. You can actually see what it is that I'm supposed to be looking at. 

And so you have to step back. You have to look at your site from the customer standpoint, and get rid of all of your assumptions as you're going through it. 

One really cool trick that I've done is have a family member who has maybe never looked at your site or someone who you just casually met and say, "Hey, do you mind walking through this for me and tell me what you think." 

But doing user experience surveys are incredibly important for this because in that way I should just pay someone to do it but then you're getting real feedback. 

Because what happens is when you have someone look at your site, or you're doing it yourself, then they're not looking at it from the standpoint of "Here's how to improve it". 

They're just gonna say "This is wrong. I don't understand what it is you want me to do here." And that only gives you so much leeway to make improvements.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. That's a good suggestion there.

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Chase Clymer  

Going back just to the navigation and like having products with a bunch of options... 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

This dawned on me as we were talking about it. I don't know who needs to hear this or who is saying this but you don't need a high SKU count to be successful. Some of the most successful stores in Ecommerce have 1 product that sells very well and then maybe some upsells after that in the funnel. You don't need a high SKU count.

I see people often like finding 1 winning product and then just adding in a bunch of different options on it. And then they immediately have that problem I just described. You don't need a high SKU count. 

You need to make a very educated addition to your website. What do people actually want? What should the next logical step be here, not just throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks because you found one that works.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. And again, remember that the purpose of your homepage is actually to get people to look further into your site. It's not meant to get them to buy right away, it's meant to make them look further. 

So if you think of the homepage as the entrance to your brick and mortar store and you actually want them to come in about 2 feet, just to look at what's on sale. 

And then when they come into 2 feet, they see what's on sale, and then they see something else that's a little bit farther into the store that might pique their interest, and then might pique their interest, and so on and so on. So the point of the homepage is to get them in further to your site before making that sale. 

The navigation menu is the map that tells them where they have to go to look further. And so it's really important to look at it from...  How do I say this? Challenge yourself to look at your navigation menu differently. 

So if you have 10 top main categories on your top navigation and then underneath that, you have subcategories that are like 20 different categories. Rethink how it's structured and think about how your customers are coming into your store. What are they looking for? What are the needs they have? 

So for example, if you sell clothing and your top navigation menu... Let's pretend you sell both men and women's clothing. Your top navigation menu is t-shirts, pants, shorts, skirts, and then on-sale items, and then new items. 

Well, when I go in there, I'm not looking for shirts, I'm looking for women's shirts. That's the first thing I'm thinking about. Women's (category) and then I want shirts. And Chase might go in there. And he's like, "Well, I don't want to look at women's, I only want to look at men. And then I want to look at pants." 

So if you rethink the way that people are shopping, the first thing that they're looking for should be your top navigation menu. And then your subcategories are like the shirts, the pants, or whatever it is that you're selling. 

So think about it differently and restructure your menu so that it's based on the way people operate and not your own assumptions.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. And then everything we just discussed here goes beyond just the top line navigation on both desktop and mobile. You gotta make it.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

It's got to go on both and it [should] make sense on both. But it also goes into your collection pages and how you're filtering stuff. 

Ilana Davis  

Oh yes. 

Chase Clymer  

It is just as important there because the Amazons, the Walmarts, the Targets of the world are teaching people how to shop and how to filter and how to find exactly what they want on collection pages. And most free themes and some of the premium themes out there, their filtering is garbage. 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

So that's something that you need to consider. It'd be like, "How does my website stack up against the browsing, browsability, the filtering of a big dog in the space?

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. And I will say to you there has to be some grains of salt when you're looking and comparing some of these big dogs, if you will. Because every store is different, every customer is different, every need is different but the function of Ecommerce is the same. 

And so you can look at the way different companies structure their product pages, the way that they structure their homepage, the way that they pull you in. But ultimately, every store is different. 

So the advice that we're talking about, I'm not being super specific about every single possible option, because every industry is different, every vertical is different but the core function of Ecommerce is going to be the same. 

And I'm telling you right now that the homepage is meant to pull you in. There are exceptions, though. So can we talk about an exception? 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah, I'd love it. 

Ilana Davis  

The only exception that I can really think of --and I'm probably missing some is-- like Chase mentioned before, if you have 1 product for example, maybe your homepage truly is like a landing page. And that's it. Then you don't need them to come in farther. 

Your whole sales piece, your whole pitch is on your homepage. And maybe you only have a single page and that's perfectly fine. Then yes, have the "Buy now!" buttons, have the goal to convert them on that homepage, because you're likely going to have a longer page than you would if you had multiple products to sell. 

So that's probably the one exception that I would say that the home page is not meant to pull you in further.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. If you have a single product, your homepage essentially becomes a long-form sales letter for the product.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. And then on that same note --because I sort of mentioned it too-- don't be afraid to make your homepage or your product page long. 

So many people look at this idea of "above the fold", if you will, and everything has to be shoved up above the fold because "People don't scroll and I have to make sure that I get them to buy from the top of that fold." Okay, I'm telling you, that's BS. (laughs) 

You don't... Use your page. The space on your website is free. You're not paying per character. You're not paying per scroll that someone has to do, so use the space that you have. 

Expand out, provide them the information, be explicit on who you are, what you do, and why they should buy from you ,and encourage people to learn more with the space that you have. Don't feel like you have to condense it all. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely.

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Chase Clymer  

Let's run it back though to the homepage because that's what the topic is supposed to be.

Ilana Davis  

(laughs)

Chase Clymer  

But I like to get to and deep and explain a bit more. So there's something else that's a pretty popular addition to most homepages: It's social feeds.

Ilana Davis  

(sighs)

Chase Clymer  

Primarily, Instagram or maybe Twitter. It's like all over the social feed most of the time. It's like above the footer at the bottom. 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

What are your thoughts on that? 

Ilana Davis  

I have serious thoughts on this. So I'm actually, really, adamantly opposed to social feeds on your website. And that's because you've worked so hard to get people to your website, and only then to ask them to click and go to your Instagram page, for example. 

And then what happens when they go to your Instagram page is they get distracted, because they're scrolling at something else. And then they're like, "Oh, look, someone's dog is at the beach. I want to go see the dog romp around or whatever." 

And then you've lost them. So encouraging people to go to your social media page should be reserved for your footer, where you have your links, where people can learn about you if you want to. 

But when you have those social feeds on your homepage that have the pretty pictures or whatever, you're encouraging people to leave your site and not buy and not learn more about you because they're going to get distracted.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. You're essentially poking holes in your funnel.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. Exactly. It's like... Literally, you're leaking it out. So I have recommendations for you so that you can still encourage people to engage with you socially, but you don't actually have to make them leave your site. 

So instead of having the Instagram feed, you can still have a section that looks like it's your Instagram feed, but it's really curated product photos, or maybe images that you have on your Instagram feed that you've inputted into your website. 

But when they click on those images, it actually takes you to a product page or a collection page or something like that, that stays on your website, instead of making them leave. 

Because when people are clicking on those images, they're probably not going to your Instagram, they're probably wanting to learn more about whatever was in that image.

Chase Clymer  

Exactly. Instead of doing the easy default Instagram, just do a Shop The Look type feature.

Ilana Davis  

Exactly. And I think you're right, though. That's what it is. It's that people want to make it easier and they want it just to automatically populate their website. 

But you know what, if it was easy, everyone would do it, and everyone would be successful. And most people aren't successful when they do those things.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. So I guess that would be considering how to break the rule on that navigation. But on the Instagram feed, essentially recreate it, do a bit more work, and turn it into a Shop The Look type feature.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. And you can still update it. Let's say you post something on Instagram, you can easily go in and you can update those images. 

It's not like it's set in stone and you never get to change them. Again, I just don't think it's necessary to have it automatically populate for you. 

So reserve your social media for your footer, don't have an automatic feed on your site, encourage people to stay on your site more. And then if they want to actually learn about you through social media, they'll go to your footer and they're going to click on it that way.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. So if I'm a store owner, and I'm hearing what we're talking about here and start to have some questions, how do I evaluate if it's working?

Ilana Davis  

So I use a couple different tools. You can use something like, Lucky Orange or Hotjar to actually evaluate what people are doing on your website,  how are they clicking, are they scrolling down, are they digging further into your site... Using things like Google Analytics will help too. 

Because really, what you want to do, again, is get people to look farther at your site. So there should be a full funnel where people are coming to your homepage for example, and then they're clicking through various pages before they actually make a purchase. 

And that means that they've been educated enough to make a purchase that they are informed, and that they're not going to be calling you in a week and saying "I had no idea this is what it did." So use tools that are out there. 

As I mentioned before, you can also have user experience testing for your site. Hire someone to do a review for your website if that's what you want to do as well. But get someone who is not close to your site to give you genuine feedback. 

And if all they tell you is it looks good, they're probably not the right person to tell you what's working or what's not working. I've seen plenty of really great websites and there's always something you can improve on. Always. There is a balance, though. 

At some point, you have to just go with it. And you're gonna say "I'm going to take this risk." Or "I'm going to accept that it's not perfect, and I have to spend my time on other things." Because you only have so much time to spend. 

But using tools like Hotjar or Lucky Orange will inform you of how people are using your site. Are they getting confused? Are they getting frustrated? And are they just flat out bouncing and not really exploring your site any further?

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. And then just like a note on traffic bouncing, sometimes it has nothing to do with your website as well.

Ilana Davis  

Absolutely. Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

Sometimes it has everything to do with how targeted your marketing is. 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer  

If you're sending unqualified traffic to your website, they are getting there under false pretenses. And then once they realize what the website is, they're like, "I don't... This isn't what I thought. This isn't why I want to be here."

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. I think a lot of people put a lot of weight on their bounce rate. And it's important, it's a good metric to look at. But yeah. 

Especially if you're running ads or something like that, the law of numbers means that you're going to have more people on your site, and many of those people aren't going to buy, they were never gonna buy, but they saw something that was like, "Oh what's that?" 

And so you have more visitors but the conversion might go down when you spend some time and money on that because you're not honed in or you're not marketing to the right people. 

When you market to the right people, you have qualified people on your site, you have a higher likelihood of conversions and your bounce rate reduces.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. Here's a complete fact: If you get into paid advertising, it doesn't matter what channel you're doing, you're going to be sending more traffic to your website and your conversion rate is absolutely going to drop.

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. And that's okay. It's fine. You just have to know that it's gonna happen. I think a lot of people make that mistake, which I know we're not talking about that piece today. 

But many people make that mistake, where they're like, "Oh, I did these ads and I assumed I would have a better conversion rate." It's like, no. 

The law of numbers tells you that you have more people. You can't have a higher conversion rate when you have more people that probably weren't ever gonna buy.

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. So let's pivot here quickly to... We were discussing how to know if it's working for you. And then there's obviously an easy way to do it: Just hire a consultant, Talk to somebody that knows what they're doing. 

Ilana Davis  

Yeah.

Chase Clymer  

And you offer a service called a Website Rescues. It's not a new idea and ecosystem, you know. These have been around forever. I know a lot of other people in the system that do it. 

But what's the process like that? How does that work? If they were going to engage a consultant, what should they be expecting?

Ilana Davis  

Yeah. So let me talk really quickly about hiring versus trying to do it yourself. There is that fine line of, "You have to do things by yourself." for a while. 

You can't afford to hire someone else and so you have to learn how it works, you have to learn what works for your business, what doesn't work... And then eventually get to that point in your business where you are able to hire out. 

So hiring a consultant or an agency, you're hiring them for their expertise. And so I highly encourage that you trust them, and throw everything that you know out the window, and let them guide you in a direction. 

We have to lean on you as a partner, we have to know what your business does and how you work. We're not going to provide recommendations that are blanketed because it doesn't work for everybody. 

But trusting someone to make changes to your site is really difficult. And the Website Rescue is focused on that. It's a 2-week process where we go through... We look at what's on your site, what changes we could recommend to either improve conversions or... I've had some people where their goal is actually to reduce the number of customer service calls... Whatever your goal is. 

So we tailor the changes that are being made to your site, within a very short window of time that are all going to drive towards this goal that you have. 

And because it's a 2-week window, you're reaping those rewards really quickly, you're able to understand the changes that we've made and are they making an impact or not. And then if not, then you test something else, and you work with it. 

And if they are fantastic, you run with it, and you make more sales, and it works for everybody.

Chase Clymer  

That's awesome. And if someone wants to learn more about that, where should they go?

Ilana Davis  

So you can actually find me at ilanadavis.com. It's I-L-A-N-A-D-A-V-I-S or type in websiterescues.com and that will come to my site as well.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Is there anything I forgot to ask you that you think would be worthwhile sharing with our audience? 

Ilana Davis  

I don't think so. (laughs)

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. We had a plan for this one.

Ilana Davis  

(laughs)

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Ilana Davis  

Thank you.

Chase Clymer  

I cannot thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their journey and knowledge with us today. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add to our businesses. Links and more information will be available in the show notes as well. 

If anything in this podcast resonated with you and your business, feel free to reach out and learn more at electriceye.io/connect. Also, make sure you subscribe and leave an amazing review. Thank you!