On this episode of Honest Ecommerce, we have Daniel Winer. Daniel is the Co-Founder and CEO of HexClad. We talk about entering the market with a game-changing product, using brand storytelling in marketing, upholding trust and customer commitment, and so much more!
Daniel Winer HexClad Co-Founder & CEO CEO, Co-Founder and kitchen maverick, Daniel Winer is the mastermind behind HexClad Cookware.
After spending more than a decade building relationships in the industry, Daniel recognized the opportunity for cookware in the DTC market. He worked to develop the first true innovation in cookware since the invention of non-stick - the patented HexClad design – which provides the searing capability of stainless steel and cast iron with the easy cleanup of nonstick for an unparalleled, high-performance culinary experience.
Daniel began marketing HexClad directly to consumers in 2016 and in 2021, partnered with 22-time Michelin-Starred Chef, Gordon Ramsay.
To date, HexClad has become one of the most successful self-funded, DTC companies in any category driving hundreds of millions in sales and revolutionizing the cookware industry along the way.
Danny currently leads the strategic direction of HexClad along with all product development efforts and global expansion initiatives. Daniel holds a Bachelors of Arts degree from New York University.
In This Conversation We Discuss:
Resources:
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Daniel Winer
There is an amazing opportunity right now. And I think one of the best things you can do is be an entrepreneur. And it's like investing in yourself and believing in yourself.
Chase Clymer
Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game.
On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating real results.
I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.
Let's get on with the show.
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. I'm your host, Chase Clymer.
And today, I'm welcoming to the show Daniel Winer. Daniel is the co-founder and CEO of HexClad.
Welcome to the show.
Daniel Winer
Thank you so much, Chase. It's a real pleasure to join you.
Chase Clymer
I'm excited to chat.
I already made this joke in the pre-show. But for those that absolutely have been living under a rock for the last couple of years and are unaware of HexClad, can you quickly let me know what type of products you guys are selling?
Daniel Winer
So we're this little tiny cookware company. We sell the most innovative kitchen products on the market right now. And our hero product is our cookware line called HexClad, which was the first hybrid cookware. Really, it's truly the only real hybrid.
I've seen some people try to market themselves like a hybrid afterwards. But it's a true marriage of durability, of stainless steel with the easy cleanup of non-stick.
Chase Clymer
Amazing. So take me back in time.
Where did the idea for this business come from? Was it product-led? Did you know you wanted to get into cookware? Walk me through the origin story.
Daniel Winer
So briefly, my co-founder and I, we actually worked for another cookware company. So I'd stumbled into the cookware business because I always loved to cook, but I wasn't a great chef. I'm just like a good home cook.
I had family in the restaurant business. It's just grueling. A horrible lifestyle. You have to be really passionate about it.
So for me, kind of stumbling into it, it seemed like a great way to have my foot in it. So we actually both worked for this company. I was the VP of sales and marketing and Cole was my number one salesman.
And we kind of noticed that the future of this company seemed to be a bit like a rudderless ship. I went to the owner of the company around 2010, late 2010, and I had Facebook up on my laptop. I put it in front of them and I said, “This is where we need to be. We got to create a community.”
And he shut me up mid-sentence, gave me a hand to the face and said, “Listen, kid, this Facebook thing, it's never going to last.”
And I'm like, “Okay,” and I walked out of his office. I'm like, I got to start my own company.
And really, Cole and I would go to the gym every night. And we started talking.
We knew we wanted to do something like a highly demonstrable kitchen product. The cookware was actually our second product ‘cause in 2013, we launched a cold press juicer. It was a ton of work, and we were importing it from Korea.
And what we never thought about was the fact that every corner was going to get a juice shop a couple of years later, and it was a very humbling experience because we hit around 2015 and things were great.
And in the middle of 16, like on a Tuesday night, we were in the juicer business and on Wednesday morning, we were out of business and we had to pull the plug that, that quickly.
And there was a level of humiliation to it. Ego bruising. Yet it's probably one of the best defining experiences that I've had because very often, you're looking for the solution on earth or you're looking for the cause of this.
And of course, often the last place we look is in the mirror, and that was it. Like I really, I let ego define what I thought the market was in my head and it was a bit of a vanity play.
And really, I'm so glad I had the experience because when I met the guy who invented how to laser etch the hexagons on what turned out to be frying pans now, originally it was a Korean barbecue plate. It was something where I looked at it without, like, a horse in the race, so to speak.
I saw innovation there. I saw a market for it, but I pulled my ego out of it.
So in 2015, that was when I first met the gentleman in China, a Korean inventor who, like I said, had created this hybrid style of marrying nonstick with steel. When I talked to him, “Can we do this on frying pans?” And he showed me a couple samples.
I'm like, “That's great, except nobody in the U.S. would ever buy this.”
So I spent the rest of ‘15 and pretty much until the juicer died, designing the cookware with them. Different handles, different weights, different sizes, until we got what I felt was the perfect pan.
Chase Clymer
So was the juice company the same name?
Daniel Winer
No, it was a product called Juicepresso. You haven't been able to get one for quite a while now since mid ‘16.
Believe me, we didn't know what to name the cookware. We had to trademark a name the next morning. And at 9.30 at night, Cole and I were just bouncing names off each other.
And finally he's like, “What about HexClad?” I'm like, “Okay, let's just do it.”
And it's funny since then I've had branding people come to me and be like, “Oh my God, you know, who, who did your name? Like, what did it cost?”
I'm like, Cole and I… I think I was sipping on a vodka soda in the living room and we were just shooting the shit, and then we came up with HexClad.
I mean, I even get compliments about our logo. We had no money. So I put a contest up on some online website for 199 bucks and all these young artists from Indonesia, Malaysia, they all sent in logos.
And that's how we pick the logo because we're completely self-funded. Everybody laughed at us when I tried to raise capital for a cookware company, especially one that I told them our strategy was D2C. I'm like, I don't care about Bed Bath & Beyond. I don't want to be there.
And so we couldn't get any investors. So when Cole and I believed in it, we just started applying for credit cards and paying one credit card with another credit card. I took penalties to cash out my IRA and 401k and we went all in.
Chase Clymer
Okay.
So you have the product after about a year of iteration, you have a name, and you're going to go to market. It's a direct-to-consumer first.
Was this back in 2016? Were you launching straight on Shopify? Did you look at any other avenues? What was the go-to-market strategy?
Daniel Winer
That's a really good question. Because like I said, originally, our plan was to be a D2C brand. Now we'd had a relationship from a previous life with Costco.
And we thought, because this was truly an innovative product, it needed its story told. And in my mind, we could do it two ways. I could sit down with you in person and tell you the story of this cookware, or I could create content and share it with you through a social platform and deliver that story that way.
What was interesting to us about Costco was Costco loves the idea that you do a little demonstration in their store.
You know, it's their model. You go there, you eat a piece of cheese, you walk around, and then you see these new products.
So I'm like, that works where I thought we would fail if this was sat on the shelf in Bed Bath & Beyond or William Sonoma, nobody's going to get what this is.
So we wanted one key retail partner. Costco seemed like the best one. And the weird thing about Costco is it's like so uncool, but it's cool at the same time. Like, you can pull into a Costco and you're parked next to a Rolls Royce, at least in LA.
And then you go inside and that guy's eating the dollar 50 hotdog and he's buying that $6 chicken, but then you can buy a hundred thousand dollar ring or you can buy a Rolex in Costco.
So that was fortunate and really, Costco just gave us a courtesy meeting in early ‘17. We had started, we launched our website. We had a Shopify store around Thanksgiving of ‘16 and we sold our first pan. In fact, I still have the email because we had a 3PL fulfillment for us at the time.
And did you ever see that when you walk in through like a little mom and pop store, they have their first dollar bill up behind the counter? That's kind of like what we think of our first email. We sold the 10 inch frying pan.
Costco, over ‘16 into ‘17 at the end there, we were struggling to clearly do our messaging correctly. Like how do I get you to understand who we are in seven seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, depending on however long I'm going to be able to keep your thumb from scrolling.
There was a lot of trial and error, a lot of error before we got it and it kind of coincided when Costco gave us an opportunity at the end of ‘17, the first half of ‘17 was lean.
Nobody had sold cookware online before, we were the first one. So there was no playbook. As I said, a lot of trial and error and a ton of errors.
And I remember the first time on Facebook that we really got some engagement was we took a static image and it was a really pretty picture of the pan. And it was sexy. And we just put over the image, ‘Who says cookware can't be sexy.’
And all of a sudden, people responded and a lot of it was negative. A lot of it was like these old biddies, like, why do you have to make everything about sex?
But they were engaging. So we were like, I didn't care because now we finally got some people to talk about us.
And that's when we realized we didn't really embrace who we are, right or wrong. We're badass, sexy cookware. We're durable cookware. You know what? We're not grandma's cookware.
And that idea was what got us into Costco in ‘17 because, you always go like, thank God I was paying attention. I read a Forbes article about Costco and how they were worried that the average shopper was 55 years old.
So when I went into the meeting, she's like, ‘Well, where do you sell?” I'm like, “D2C only.” She's rolling her eyes, “Well, I don't know if we can do this.” And I said, “Well, listen, we're not for everyone because we're not grandma's cookware, we're Gen Z's cookware, we're the millennials cookware.”
And I saw her eyes lit up. “She's like, really? Tell me more.” I'm like, “Yeah. And we only want one strategic retail partner, you guys. And that's it. If not, we're just going to be DTC.”
And at the end of the conversation, she was like, “Let me see if I can get this through.”
By the end of ‘17, we had our first store, one test store, Fountain Valley, California, and the first day we sold $5,000 worth of cookware. And I walked out to my car and like a tear drift dime. It would have been so stressful and we were out of money. You know, Cole and I, we actually had put the sets of cookware together in his backyard because he couldn't afford to have them come packaged because we were so bootstrapped.
And then that was the beginning of the rocket ship.
Chase Clymer
Before you get into Costco, you're working on identifying your messaging and you're trying to get it. Crack the Facebook code, crack the paid ad code.
Were you selling much of anything at that time?
Daniel Winer
Not really, not profitably, that's for sure. I'm trying to remember what our pack was at the time, but it was like double the price of the pan. But really, what we were looking for is, are there any type of metrics of engagement at that point? We're like, I think I can sell them later on.
That was before the whole iOS operating, the ‘14. It's a disaster.
And people really weren't buying Facebook ads for that long at that point. Like in ‘16, it was still somewhat new. So there weren't a ton of experts.
There were a lot of people who could spend your money, but they weren't spending it as efficiently. And I always got worried, we were meeting with certain certain companies and they're like, “Okay, 15% on top of ad spend,” but they couldn't give me answers on how they were strategically going to place these ads and how we were going to attach ourselves to the people that would be our core customers moving forward.
And then by the time we did start with Costco, that gave us a cushion and that gave us the opportunity to be riskier with our strategy.
At the time, it was mostly Facebook and Instagram. And that was about it. Obviously now, it goes all across different social platforms, though the meta platforms still are the best performing.
Chase Clymer
Absolutely. And we'll get a little more nerdy about that stuff a little later on.
But do you remember during that time, before you landed the Costco deal, just to set an expectation for some young entrepreneur out there that might be moving down a similar path, How much money you guys were eventually lighting on fire with Facebook, just to learn?
Daniel Winer
We just did not have the budget. So in 2017, when we started running paid ads, the first couple months of 17, we were spending like, oh my god, like 50 bucks a day, 80 bucks a day, 100 bucks a day.
Those first couple of months, we spent like three to 5,000 and we would make 3000 in sales, 1800 in sales.
But as we dialed in the messaging a bit, a $3,000 to $5,000 spend was making us about $10,000 in revenue.
Another great thing that Costco did, since we're doing these in store demos, it's almost like a live focus group because you're in front of these people and they're responding or they're not responding.
And when they respond, you know what they're responding to. So I would take that messaging, what was working in the store and go, “Okay, how do we just, you know, fine tune that, focus it a bit and then turn it into a Facebook ad?”
And really, the first thing that we did is we tried to do some artsy-fartsy type stuff that wasn't converting.
The first thing that converted was me doing a quick video of the value props of the pan as if it was in Costco.
And we just shot it really quickly. I mean, it's an awful video. I just got off a plane. I flew for 16 hours home from Europe. I wore a vest in the video because my shirt was so wrinkled up right straight out of the suitcase. I never thought this video was going to see the light of day.
And then our guys who were creating content, they're like, “Ooh, there was some good stuff there,” and they just cut it without telling me and started running ads.
And, you know, I looked so bad in it. I was getting mocked by my high school buddies. They're like, “Dude, you look hungover.” I'm like, “Well, I did have a couple of whiskeys on the flight. Maybe that's it.” Or, “Dude, why, why are you wearing that?” They're making fun of my vest.
So it was fun. The fact was that messaging became the foundation of what we tried to do everything afterwards, which was how do we deliver a value prop quickly? What value props resonate? Which ones don't resonate with the audience?
So that was really telling. And when we got a new idea, we could experiment with it, demonstrating to the Costco customers in early ‘18. So then things really started to take off over, over ‘18.
Each month we were getting better and we were hiring some consultants because we didn't know what to expect. So these know-it-alls would come in and they'd be like, “Okay, we've analyzed the market and we've analyzed the Ecommerce marketplace, and you can expect that you will get no more than a hundred thousand dollars a month in sales.”
And then like in ‘18, we hit 105,000 and I fired them.
And the guy who was doing a lot of our ad buying at the time, this guy Sean, who's still part of the company, he would just roll his eyes and go–he's very kind of soft-spoken–he's like, “I think we can do better.”
Then we hire these people who go, ‘You know what, we've analyzed the market again and cookware can do about 250,000 a month, but that's about it.” And then we do like 300, so we fire them,and that kept happening over ‘18 until we finally got into 7 figures in monthly revenue online.
Once we got into 19, heading into the beginning of 19, we started flirting with 7 figures. And then we're breaking that by the end of the year, before the pandemic hit and made everybody rethink things.
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Chase Clymer
So there's a lot of growth that I feel I need to ask about. So what were some of the things... Obviously, your messaging, you were increasing your spins, you're getting more efficient with your spins, you were all in on paid acquisition.
But were there other things that you started to experiment with that were pouring gas on this fire and really helping you guys hit this…I mean, you did 100% year over year growth, multiple years in a row.
Daniel Winer
Yeah. Well, in those times, from obviously ‘17, we only did... I'm trying to remember now. 600,000 or 700,000 wasn't that much.
So obviously to get up to around 10 or 11 and 18, that was significant. At that time we were like tripling or quintupling for 17, 18, 19 in there.
There's things that we added. An influencer program was really good. We didn't have a lot of money to pay people and I hate paying. I like when people have skin in the game. I don't want to pay you for doing nothing or in the hopes that you're going to do something. To me, that's a risky proposition.
So I like that, or to do some affiliate marketing where they do have skin in the game.
So we started experimenting with those types of programs and that type of marketing and we saw those results.
We have a bit of a cheat code. And that cheat code is, humbly, as humble as I can be, we have the best product on the market in this space. We have a truly innovative product. So that makes it kind of unfair for other guys because there was no innovation in the cookware space.
The last real innovation was Teflon came out in 1959. And then it was just a Teflon pan, a stainless steel pan, a cast iron skillet. And that was kind of it.
And so now we had something that was a better mousetrap and all I had to do was figure out the right way to tell you about it.
The hardest thing is the product. And I mean, look at Steve Jobs, he made a better product. We all see these things, that he was a bit crazy or a bit eccentric, but you know what? He's like, “I've got a better mousetrap.”
And now you just need to spread the message. So we have that and as I've watched, when you when you're the first D2C cookware brand, by the end of ‘17, I was seeing one or two other brands appearing. And then in 18 and 19, I saw a ton of brands appearing that were D2C brands.
However, I felt like they didn't really have something to sell other than, “Hey, our pan is pretty,” or, “Our pan got this cool shape to it, it's powder blue.”
Nothing against any of those brands. There's a market and a value prop that you have with your product and you need to lean into it.
But I think, ultimately, what's the overall strategy? And when Cole and I started the company, our goal was not for cash grab. And we, to this day, we were not thinking about an exit. I wake up, I love my fucking job. I love going to work every day. We were building a legacy brand.
So we do things differently than if you're hoping that you have these five years of tremendous growth and then private equity comes in and bows you out, takes your money, and you go do something else.
I wanted to go on a lifelong journey with my customers. That's why everything we build is built to last a long time. We'd go broke giving a lifetime guarantee on our products if they didn't hold up that way.
And in all the testing that we do, they hold up. And that's why, like, I look at some of these companies that have a one year guarantee or one year warranty: Shame on you. That's almost stealing from the consumer.
So when that's your overall strategy, I think that gives you a comfort level and gives you a little more runway because I know I'm trying to get people for a lifetime. That takes a little bit longer and a little more effort, I believe.
Chase Clymer
Absolutely. We've talked about all these just tremendous wins, the growth, just getting into cost. Let's pivot though.
Is there anything in looking back in the brand's lifecycle that you wish you maybe could do over? Or any insights to share to help other people avoid maybe a mistake or two from the past?
Daniel Winer
It's like, do I have any regrets?
Well, look, there's things I would do differently, I guess. But if I could switch them, I don't know if I would because I do think every time I fail at something, I'm a bit of a stoic and I'm a pragmatist. So I try to look at it and go, what can I learn from this situation?
So ultimately, I wouldn't change anything but what I would do is this, I would say to people: Ask, ask more questions.
And this might seem silly. Sometimes I feel like I have to find the answer for something. And just like, if I was sick, the last thing I should do is… My doctor has a thing in her office, it says, “My medical degree is better than your Google search.”
Sometimes I figure out, “I'm going to get the answer myself,” and what I would say now is just ask people. Do your research, but ask everybody. Hell, if I'd asked more people, some very close friends of mine said, “Hey, if you'd asked me if the juicer was a good idea, I would have told you probably not.” But I did something that simple.
So go ask people, ask questions, get their feedback and don't get your feelings hurt. Don't get blood hurt over it because none of us are perfect. We're going to come up with bad ideas, bad marketing things.
I think that's it.
And really embrace your failures because you're not always responsible for your successes. Sometimes it's just serendipity. Sometimes it's people you're working with. But very often, you're the one who's responsible for the failure. So really embrace it, learn from it.
Those are the two things I would tell young entrepreneurs if they have the ideas. Examine the value or know your role in it. And then learn and pivot so we don't make the same mistake twice.
Chase Clymer
That's amazing, Danny.
Now, is there anything I didn't ask you about that you think would resonate with our audience?
Daniel Winer
Oh, gosh.
Look, I would say this very often, like I'll be on a panel or something. And I get these… they're kind of like the lame ‘Believe in yourself,’ ‘Don't take no for an answer.’ I mean, we know that. That's what your parents tell you in T ball. We’ve got that.
But the thing is, always question yourself. If you can't give yourself a positive answer on something, then that might be a wrong strategy.
So I ask myself a lot of questions, like, is this the right message I want to tell? Is this the right product I want to bring to market? Answer tough questions when you ask yourself them, because they will very often map out not only your strategy, but the path you need to take to market.
I would always tell people that because so often you think my path is that way, right? It's not. The path is that way. And when you have the blinders on, you only see that one way, but there's a lot of ways to get from A to B. And it's not always the fastest way.
And I think that's about being observant and opening your eyes. Open your eyes. It can sound kind of silly, but do not be myopic in business because I think people often are. And it comes back to bite them in the ass, especially when they've overcommitted in that way.
Chase Clymer
Thanks for sharing that, Danny.
Now, we've talked about the product quite a bit. And you talked about one of the best advantages that any business can have, which is just having a good product.
If I'm listening to this, and I want to go check out the product, where should I go?
Daniel Winer
You should go to hexclad.com and not only are all the products there, but there's some great content.
Obviously, we have a celebrity partner in our company, the biggest chef in the world, who is a real partner, by the way. Very, very involved, almost too involved. Like he'll call me with product ideas and I’m like, “You, listen, you do the TV thing, let me do the product development thing.”
Chase Clymer
Yeah. No, that's amazing. And everyone go and figure that out for yourself.
Also, if you're lucky, you might see a product demo at your local Costco as well. I know they do them here in Columbus, Ohio. I've seen it before.
Danny, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show today and sharing your story.
Any parting words?
You know, Chase, I would just say this because I love what you do and other podcast hosts because I would tell any young person, like, heading into college, getting out of college, dropping out of college: There is an amazing opportunity right now, and I think one of the best things you can do is be an entrepreneur. It's like investing in yourself and believing in yourself. You're going to fail, but guess what? If you keep with it, you're going to succeed.
And I don't want to say, “Hey, don't go get a straight job,” but I think when people can listen to stories about various businesses being built, they can look at what they have inside of them and go, “You know what, I can do that too.”
And so I just thank you for doing what you do. And hopefully, people listen to this, there's going to be a couple of people who are going to be inspired to build their own business and provide jobs and stimulate the economy and all those cool things.
Chase Clymer
And then they'll be on the podcast in a couple years.
Daniel Winer
Exactly.
Chase Clymer
Awesome. Danny, thank you so much.
Daniel Winer
It's an absolute pleasure.
Chase Clymer
We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes.
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