On this episode of Honest Ecommerce, we have Gustavo Sanchez. Gustavo is the Co-founder and CEO of jijamas, a luxury sleepwear brand. We talk about finding the right business idea, the power of product quality and reviews, leveraging platforms to reach wider audiences, and so much more!
Gustavo is an advertising & marketing executive turned entrepreneur.
In the past, he’s held management positions in fortune 500 companies in the US & abroad.
He currently runs jijamas®, a high-end sleepwear brand that he founded several years ago to help women unwind & relax from their busy lifestyles.
He loves all things related to e-commerce and working with international markets.
In This Conversation We Discuss:
Resources:
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Gustavo Sanchez
If you’re an online business, you're going to live from reviews and you're going to die from reviews.
Chase Clymer
Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game.
On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating real results.
I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.
Let's get on with the show.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. I've got a fun one today.
The co-founder and CEO of jijamas, Gustavo Sanchez, welcome to the show.
Gustavo Sanchez
Thanks for having me. Nice to be here, man.
Chase Clymer
Oh, I'm excited. So for those that are unfamiliar with the brand, can you quickly just give them an idea of what the products are that you guys are selling?
Gustavo Sanchez
Sure. We sell the softest pajamas known to mankind, basically.
Chase Clymer
Ooh.
Gustavo Sanchez
It's a brand of incredibly soft pajamas made from the same soft cotton used in high-end pajamas for newborns.
Chase Clymer
Awesome. Awesome.
Gustavo Sanchez
So that's kind of our concept that we can go into. But newborn pajamas are the epitome of softness and we use the same materials and ours but they're for adults.
Chase Clymer
Awesome.
Well, take me back in time. Where'd the idea for this product come from?
Gustavo Sanchez
It was at an “aha!” moment that I had but it was after a process, kind of. So I was working in the corporate world, and I figured out that I didn't want to do that for the next 15 or 20 years of my life. And so I had a personal objective of setting up a business, but I didn't know what it was at the time.
I was really interested in Ecommerce that I had touched upon in the corporate world. It also had to be something that I really liked to do because otherwise, why would I leave for something that I don't like?
And so I had like an advantage, I think, a competitive advantage is I have deep roots in Peru and South America. I live there. I worked there for a number of years. There's a whole bunch of things down there that I thought I could bring to market. I just had to identify which one it was.
So I went through a process of looking at different things that are available down there. There's a lot of food products that are exported, but it kind of didn't. It was more high volume, low margin, which is in the area that I didn't wanna go into.
I looked at a furniture business. There's a lot of good carpentry and wood down there. I spent some time and money on that actually, but then it was more of a wholesale business that, again, I was really more interested in starting something in Ecommerce.
There were a couple of several things. I kind of went through my due diligence and kind of figured that they weren't it. Peru is also very good at textiles. They've had a long tradition for years. They grow incredibly good cotton down there. That was always an option, but I didn't really feel that I had a concept or anything to sell yet.
This process kind of helped me, I think in retrospect, identify that aha moment that came to me and made me ready to say, “Yes, this is the idea that I want.”
And the aha moment was, it's kind of funny actually. So at the time we had two little ones, two little girls, probably both of them under three or around two years old. They had the softest pajamas ever from Peru. My family would send us gifts or when they come, they would visit and they would give them these super high-end, you touch them, you're jealous that you didn't have some of those.
And so we would put them on when they were ready to go to sleep and it would calm them down. And my wife one day said, “Wow, I wish I had pajamas like these.” And that rang a bell immediately. I said, “But what do you mean? Why don't you just go and get some?” She goes, “Well, there's nothing this soft out there available. And if there are, they're in designs that I don't really, you know, they're farty designs that I'm not really interested in.”
I stayed kind of quiet and I just started like over the next couple of days just observing her. We were both working in the corporate world and I got home before her, my commute was shorter. And when she would come home, the first thing she would always do is say hi to the girls and then go upstairs and get changed into something more comfortable. It's usually like sweatpants and a t-shirt or a sweatshirt or something.
And then I started researching the category, the sleep category, and she was right. There wasn't really anything made from this incredibly soft Pima cotton at the time. If there was anything decent, I know the designs were something that she wouldn't wear. They were really pajam-y, she wouldn't want anybody to see. It's like, people still come over at that time.
They bring the doorbell, the neighbor, you take the dog out, whatever. You don't want people to see you in pajamas.
And so that was the origin of jijamas. Like the same sleepwear, the same cotton used in high-end pajamas for newborns, but for adults in designs that you would actually want to wear.
And the name was funny too because my younger daughter, my youngest, couldn't pronounce pajamas. She would say, “Hey, can I put my jijamas on?” So that's when I immediately trademarked the name.
And then I was at the next step of focusing on where to get this done.
Chase Clymer
Awesome. Awesome.
Well, first, I just really want to highlight 2 things you did there that I think our listeners would be interested in. We've got listeners all over the place and spectrum where they are in their career, and I know there's a lot of people out there that want to break into Ecommerce, as you said, that you wanted to for a while.
I think that the idea of looking at other markets outside of America and seeing what's trending there for inspiration is something no one's really specifically touched on like you just did.
So there's something for the listeners to take away. But then also, I always like the honesty behind taking an idea that exists and just tweaking it a little bit and making it just that much better is how you can make a lot of money to be honest. It's a very proven strategy.
Gustavo Sanchez
Exactly. I think a lot of young, amateur nerds, when I talk to them, because every once in a while I mentor somebody, there’s like the thought that they have to be the next Zuckerberg.
Chase Clymer
Oh my gosh. I know.
Gustavo Sanchez
When you just... A nice, fat niche is all you need to make some good money. It doesn't have to be something that's going to revolutionize the world. It's just something that you could do and do better than others and make it happen.
Chase Clymer
There are so many blue collar millionaires that have just built a landscaping company over the summers in colleges and sold it and just live life.
Gustavo Sanchez
Exactly.
Chase Clymer
And it's not a hard business model, just do it better than everyone else.
Gustavo Sanchez
Exactly. Exactly.
Chase Clymer
So you have this awesome idea, a fantastic name. Does your daughter get trademark rights on that name?
Gustavo Sanchez
She hasn't asked for it yet. She... I hope... So no, she doesn't.
Chase Clymer
Awesome. Well, hopefully she doesn't find this episode when she gets ready to go to college and ask for that tuition.
All right.
So you got this great name. You got this product idea. What's the next step? How do you go from this idea to a product?
Gustavo Sanchez
So I knew I could do textiles in Peru. I started researching like crazy and then I tapped into my network down there. I called a buddy who works in the textile industry and I identified like five companies that I thought would be a good fit for me. And we went through them and he was like, we reduce it to three. Got on a plane, went down.
And this is when I figured out that I really knew nothing about the textile industry. And so I had several designs that I wanted to produce. And so I visited one company. I don't even remember what happened. It was like nothing, I guess.
Another one kind of told me, “Hey, when you're bigger, come back. We're not going to deal with somebody that's just starting.”
And then the third one was great. And the owner who received me, who I met with, kind of, I said, “Hey, I need a blue,” Just to simplify, “I need a blue pajama, a striped pajama, a pink one and a green one.”
I showed her the designs that I had and I said, “I want 300 of each.” And she was kind of laughing. She said, “Look, that's not how it works. There's this thing called minimum order quantities that you have to reach. What you have to do is combine.
So why don't you just use two colors? The blue is on the top of one. It's on the pants on the bottom. You make a short set, short sleeve with shorts on another one, maybe a little dress. It's all the same fabric. You reach the minimum order quantities and off you are.”
So I established a relationship with her and that was quite a bit ago. And we've been great together. We've grown together.
Chase Clymer
It's interesting that you bring up those minimum order quantities, MLQs, right? Isn't that what they call them?
Gustavo Sanchez
Yep. Yep. MLQs.
Chase Clymer
The businesses out there that will educate an entrepreneur on the things that they don't know, and it's more a consultative sales approach, they're always the ones that win the business.
There's always these curmudgeons that own these giant factories that are just set in their ways.
Gustavo Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
So it's important to have options. I'm glad I visited three, I did my homework before that and I had thought of the size and if they were too big. I really didn't even visit the ginormous ones.
And so off we went, we started. I was still working. So, that's another thing I think for a young entrepreneur, I just couldn't quit my job and do this. I didn't even know if it worked. And so this was all a side hustle, you know?
Chase Clymer
Yeah, we'll get to when you quit your job. And that will be a future part of this conversation.
Gustavo Sanchez
So my objective, my short term objective was twofold. One, prove the concept. Does this resonate with people? Can I sell it at the price I want to sell it at?
And then second is the whole supply chain. From production to shipping to getting it here in my basement, originally, and then out the door and can I make it work.
And so I did that for, I don't know, three years probably, two and a half, three years. I only produced once a year. I wasn't following the fashion cycle yet at the time.
And probably around year three, I was starting to get excited because I felt like I had a concept that was proven, particularly because I got a lot of repeat business.
Still small, sat with my wife and said, :Hey, I have something here. Like, if I don't give it 100% of the time, it's never going to be anything. So, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to focus on this.”
And she was involved in the business too, by the way. I can comment on that in a little bit. She's one of the co-founders with me. We did it. We took that jump and I was really focused on making it profitable.
Because again, there's another conversation to be had with young entrepreneurs on how, like, do you want to be profitable off the bat? Or do you want to scale unprofitably to sell it at some point?
Which a lot of people do. It's not necessarily for me, at least at the point I was in my life.
So for me, it was really, how do I get into profitability so that I can start contributing again to the family income?
Chase Clymer
Absolutely.
Let's quickly think about those 3 years that we'll call it where you still have your day-to-day job, and this is your side hustle. You're working on finding product market fit and finding out what resonates and what doesn't resonate with the product and your customers, I'm assuming.
I know the first question I have is how did you get these pajamas in front of people that weren't your friends and family? How did you find your first customers out there in the wild? What were you doing?
Gustavo Sanchez
The classic: Google, Facebook, Instagram, influencers, PR, probably a couple of the mailers.
That's the hardest part. You're right. The first collection was really family and friends. It was good and bad because I got feedback, but the sizing was kind of off and it stinks when you sell something to somebody that you know and it's not like the perfect experience. Another thing, you have to start at some point and then adjust. We adjusted from there.
But to answer your question, a lot of the classic marketing tools. At the beginning, we were only on our website. We're not even on Amazon yet because I got into Amazon a little later.
Chase Clymer
Absolutely. I think that's another paralyzing concept for entrepreneurs: perfection versus done.
Gustavo Sanchez
Yeah. It's never going to be perfect. It still isn't perfect. So you just have to go and strive for as good as it can be.
Chase Clymer
Absolutely.
So was there like a milestone or like a moment going into year 3 with the momentum? Where you're like, this is the right time to really dive all in and give this 100%.
Gustavo Sanchez
I don't think there was one thing. It was just sales momentum, I would say. We got pretty decent at the classic stuff like Facebook, we were acquiring customers through there. Google, we got better and better.
I don't think it was one event. It was really just like the notion of if this is going to be a side hustle, then it's always going to be a side hustle. And my fear of it not resonating with the world was kind of gone.
I didn't know if I could scale it to what I wanted to, but there's only one way to find out. And so I was already profitable too, by the way. Again, small, but I was profitable. That made me comfortable too.
I wasn't yet taking a salary. I was plowing everything back in. So I was in a good position to give it a try.
Chase Clymer
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Chase Clymer
Do you remember what your budgets were back then for paid ads? And if you want to share where they're at now just to show the growth of where you started?
Gustavo Sanchez
I'd like to keep my paid ads at around 20% of sales. All of everything. I don't know, industry-wise, if that's good or bad. But it's in line with my profit expectations.
It doesn't necessarily drive with a lot that you hear out there. Agencies try to lure you in with, “Oh, I'll give you a Ross of two. So if you put a dollar in, you get two back.” That's, that's 50% of your money spent on advertising basically.
I hope that answers your question. It’s always been around that figure. Some years I go over because of certain market conditions, some years I'm under because of market conditions.
Chase Clymer
I think that's a fantastic answer and an honest answer, especially coming from someone who you already mentioned prior and I want to draw back to it, that your aspirations with this business wasn't to build a rocket ship and scale for the sake of scale to sell it. It was to build a profitable business from day one and grow it in a way that you wanted to grow it.
And I think that setting a benchmark of a percentage of gross is an easy benchmark for entrepreneurs to understand, especially when they're first getting started, that you do need to budget for marketing and advertising.
Gustavo Sanchez
It's hard to stay true to it at the very beginning in particular. Especially when you're putting money into things like PR, for instance, where most times it doesn't work. But on all the paid stuff, which is very measurable, at least it was a lot more measurable. It's kind of somewhat simple to stay on that track.
Chase Clymer
Absolutely.
Let's talk about the growth after you decided to go all in on the business. What started to happen?
Gustavo Sanchez
So then we started to focus on two collections a year. So we only had... I'll just keep it simple, we only had long sleeves. And so now we brought in things for summer. We expanded to robes and nightgowns and we brought men products in. I tried Europe, Amazon.
I think we should probably talk about Amazon. So the first couple of years, it was just entirely my website hosted on Shopify. And I think all the learnings came in through there, but I was wondering if Amazon would be a good fit at some point.
Remember, this is probably 2015 or so, ‘14, ‘15. And there was still a sentiment that Amazon really has a lot of cheap stuff, you get the lowest price there. And Amazon has evolved a lot since then. And part of the reason they evolved is they reached out to companies that they wanted to.
They reached out to me, actually. It was amazing. I was still tiny, but they said, “Hey, we want to expand our apparel offering, especially on the high price side.”
Because my stuff, I started at 90 bucks. Now it's at $118. It’s a hefty price tag. So they were interested in carrying products like mine.
And so they assigned somebody to me. They created my listings. They set me up on Amazon.
And so that started to take off, right? Amazon has been…there's a bit of a love-hate relationship with Amazon, to say the least, but I'm still more loved than hate. And it's been a good source of growth for us.
And our customers go back and forth, by the way, we hear that all the time. They deliver fast, for a variety of reasons.
So there was channel expansion, there was product expansion. We tried Europe on Amazon, but it didn't work. I got to give it another try. I think it was a little bit on the early side in Europe. And then we really just focused on the basics and scaling has been what's happened since then.
COVID came along. COVID was good for sleepwear for online sleepwear brands. Imagine everybody was home, and I just didn't have enough pajamas to sell during COVID. But after COVID, we got a lot more competitive.
In the grand scheme of things, we're probably at where we are, in terms of sales, where we would be without COVID. It's funny.
We grew up with COVID, the next year wasn't gonna be the same, went down a little bit, but now we've recovered all that and a little bit more.
Chase Clymer
Absolutely.
Is there anything I didn't ask you about today that you think would resonate with our audience?
Gustavo Sanchez
Yeah, a couple things. I think a couple things. The first is we are sticklers with quality. If you're an online business, you're going to live from reviews and you're going to die from reviews.
You can have the wrong sizes at the beginning and you can have forgivable mistakes, but quality, you really have to be on your A-game on quality. I think that's one of the elements of our success and our repeat rate because our quality is really there.
And when you look, sometimes you can see on other brands what you track and you see the reviews, and you can see there's quality issues that are no longer going to hurt them.
For any young entrepreneur thinking about something, make sure you have a plan for quality control in place so that you don't have problems down the road.
Chase Clymer
Absolutely.
Gustavo Sanchez
The second is to think about repeat. It's exciting to get a new customer, but it's more exciting when they buy again. And that's where you make more money.
Chase Clymer
Awesome.
Now if I'm a customer, or if I'm listening to this podcast, and I'm curious to check out these high quality products that you're so passionate about, where should I go?
Gustavo Sanchez
jijamas.com. It rhymes with pajamas. J-I-J-A-M-A-S .com. It's how, again, how my daughter pronounced it. We're there and reach out. We're glad to help with anything if needed.
Chase Clymer
Awesome. We'll make sure to link that stuff in the show notes. Gustavo, thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your insights.
Gustavo Sanchez
Awesome. Thanks. Thanks to you.
Chase Clymer
We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes.
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Until next time!